Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

Location: Casino Arizona in Scottsdale, AZ
Stakes: $20/$40
Players: Loose aggressive game. It’s loose, but not quite as loose as the better Bay 101 or Commerce games tonight. Fairly aggressive game, of the likes I haven’t seen in awhile. Not tricky aggressive. On flop betting, you can expect callers for a single bet with just overs. I can only give it a borderline *** of 5 stars.

Principal players:

UTG – Loose aggressive young Korean guy with A’s hat. He actually has “scared” moments and tends to check-call on big bets streets when things turn a little ugly.

MP – Laggy Asian guy with glasses. I wish I can remember his name. Frank maybe? He’s very loose, and aggressive, but he picks his spots well and makes good value bets, isolation raises, etc. He might be the table’s best player.

CO – Me

SB – Really, really loose passive player. His calling range is not tight at all.

BB – Me.

Preflop: (1.5 small bets, 9 players)

UTG limps, MP raises, folds to me with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and I 3-bet. SB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (13 small bets, 4 players) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

All check to me, SB calls, UTG folds, MP calls.

Turn: (8 big bets, 3 players) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

All check to me, I bet, SB check-raises, MP folds, I ???

Garland

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

3bet and call down if he 4bets unless you boat up

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

I guess it depends on whether the "really, really" applies to the passive part, or just the loose part. If he truly is really, really passive, than I might call down the c/r, but for the vast majority of players we have to 3-bet here. If he caps and leads the river, then you could consider folding.

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

Call down. Im pretty sure you arent even ahead of his range here.

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

Threebet...people are raising here if they can beat AA and AK, not if they can beat KK and QQ...threebet and obv call down unless improvement.

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Threebet...people are raising here if they can beat AA and AK, not if they can beat KK and QQ...threebet and obv call down unless improvement.

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Even if I put stuff like J3o and Q3o in his range, you dont have enough equity to 3 bet.

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

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Threebet...people are raising here if they can beat AA and AK, not if they can beat KK and QQ...threebet and obv call down unless improvement.

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Even if I put stuff like J3o and Q3o in his range, you dont have enough equity to 3 bet.

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that's absurd, of course you should 3-bet if you can put J3o and Q3o in his range. those hands probably aren't in his range though so i'd just call down here

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

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Threebet...people are raising here if they can beat AA and AK, not if they can beat KK and QQ...threebet and obv call down unless improvement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if I put stuff like J3o and Q3o in his range, you dont have enough equity to 3 bet.

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that's absurd, of course you should 3-bet if you can put J3o and Q3o in his range. those hands probably aren't in his range though so i'd just call down here

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Unless I did something really wrong, we have slightly more than 60% eq which isnt enough because he caps with everything that beats us.

Re: Live 20/40...Turn action?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Threebet...people are raising here if they can beat AA and AK, not if they can beat KK and QQ...threebet and obv call down unless improvement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if I put stuff like J3o and Q3o in his range, you dont have enough equity to 3 bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's absurd, of course you should 3-bet if you can put J3o and Q3o in his range. those hands probably aren't in his range though so i'd just call down here

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I did something really wrong, we have slightly more than 60% eq which isnt enough because he caps with everything that beats us.

[/ QUOTE ]

let's assume:

1. if you 3-bet and you have him beat he calls down every time
2. if you 3-bet and he has you beat, he 4-bets you and you call a river bet every time

1. 60% of the time you win 1 turn bet and 1 river bet for a total of 2 bets. 0.6 x 2 = 1.2
2. 40% of the time you lose 2 turn bets and 1 river bet for a total of 3 bets. 0.4 x 3 = 1.2

so based on this simple assumption 3-betting is break even. however, this doesn't factor in the times you get to raise when you suckout on the river, your opponent making a full house on the river giving you a bigger full house and thus more action, or the rare times you're ahead on the turn even when 4-bet.

Thoughts and results...
 

Thoughts:

If I 3-bet, he'll 4-bet me with the straight 100% of the time, and maybe sometimes with hands that I beat like top two, so I'm forced to call down. I judged that the value I lose by not 3-betting top set with the best hand was exceeded by the times I get 4-bet and I call down with the worse hand.

Results:

I called the turn check-raise and the board paired the Q. SB checked to me, I bet and was shown KJo.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Garland