Re: Capital Punishment
 

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FWIW, I think killing for revenge is for more "moral" than killing to save a buck.

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What about for entertainment? Do it in the stadium, have them fight to the death, and charge a healthy admission fee. If 50,000 people will pay $150 to see a Rolling Stones concert, this could be a goldmine!

Re: Capital Punishment
 

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How much a year per person does it cost for a person to be in jail?

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The solution to high prison costs is not to put more people to death. If high prison costs are the issue, then think about ways to reform the system --- i.e. are we imprisoning too many people for too minor of offences, are there ways to maintain our current imprisonment rates and lower costs (i.e. more efficient prisons.)

Usually the "it costs more..." argument is used to disarm incorrect beliefs held by supporters of capital punishment. It isn't a strong independent reason to be anti-capital punishment.

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Do you realize that the most vicious people are at the top of the social ladder in jail, thereby refuting the idea that life in prison is worse then the death penalty?


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I don't see how one refutes the other, but nonetheless even if they are the highest social class in the prison, so what? So you kill all of them, all you've done is make someone else the highest social class (i.e. someone who committed the worst non-capital offense.)

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How can you both claim
1) life in prison is worse then death
2) you don't support the death penalty because it could lead to the death of innocent people

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Good question. I think those who make the anti-death penalty argument that life in prison is worse should really think about this. The biggest thing for me is that death is irreversible. We can always release someone from prison if there was an error made...you can't unkill them.


Ultimately, I suspect that a large portion of the pro-capital punishment crowd are pro-capital punishment because they are fed up with our criminal justice system. They see prisons as easy life, they see the whole process as too expensive, they hate the idea of parole and think people don't serve enough time. I went to a public hearing on the death penalty about 10 years ago (so my recollection of the specifics are sketchy, but...) one of the speakers suggested the following:

Polls show that 2/3 of americans are pro capital punishment.
If you ask are you pro capital punishment if life in prison without the possibility of parole is the alternative...the number drops significantly.
If you ask are you pro capital punishment if life in prison without the possibility of parole and the inmate is required to perform labor (the proceeds of which go to victims families)...the numbers drop even more (to less than a majority.)

This suggests to me that support for the death penalty have much to do with frustration with our current criminal justice system.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

I thought it was funny [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Capital Punishment
 

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No. Too barbaric.

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Coming from this poster, the preceding comment may very well be the most ironic I have ever read.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

Before you agree with the Death Penalty, you must agree to the possibility of an innocent being murdered (an innocent who could be anybody from a complete stranger to your own mother). THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THIS. None.

Given that, i don't see how anybody could be in favor of it. All the stats of it being more expensive than Life in Prison, it not acting as a deterrant, etc. are ancillary.

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To those against the death penalty-

How much a year per person does it cost for a person to be in jail?

Do you realize that the most vicious people are at the top of the social ladder in jail, thereby refuting the idea that life in prison is worse then the death penalty?

How can you both claim
1) life in prison is worse then death
2) you don't support the death penalty because it could lead to the death of innocent people

these two statements completely contradict each other to me. Maybe it's too late.

Borodog- Can you explain your point a little more?

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Assuming that we agree with your premise, which i don't, an argument could simply be made by having the replacement for Death Penalty be a specific form of Life behind bars, that does indeed suck.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

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Before you agree with the Death Penalty, you must agree to the possibility of an innocent being murdered (an innocent who could be anybody from a complete stranger to your own mother). THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THIS. None.

Given that, i don't see how anybody could be in favor of it. All the stats of it being more expensive than Life in Prison, it not acting as a deterrant, etc. are ancillary.

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To those against the death penalty-

How much a year per person does it cost for a person to be in jail?

Do you realize that the most vicious people are at the top of the social ladder in jail, thereby refuting the idea that life in prison is worse then the death penalty?

How can you both claim
1) life in prison is worse then death
2) you don't support the death penalty because it could lead to the death of innocent people

these two statements completely contradict each other to me. Maybe it's too late.

Borodog- Can you explain your point a little more?

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Assuming that we agree with your premise, which i don't, an argument could simply be made by having the replacement for Death Penalty be a specific form of Life behind bars, that does indeed suck.

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Just to be smart:

Before you agree to prison sentence you must agree that someone could be wrongly convicted and sentenced to prison. There is no way around that. Therefore I can not see any reason to be for prison sentences because it could be your mother.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

You can be let out of prison if an error is found. You can't be let out of death.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

Death is slightly more problematic to get out of if you are proved innocent.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

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Before you agree with the Death Penalty, you must agree to the possibility of an innocent being murdered (an innocent who could be anybody from a complete stranger to your own mother). THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THIS. None.

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What's even more interesting to me is that it is often those who argue most strongly about the corruption and fallibility of government who are in favor of the death penalty.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

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When New York had CP (if it doesn't still), I've been told it cost 22 million to put a criminal to death (court costs, whatever, poison).

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I don't support capital punishment, (and NY no longer has CP due to a COA ruling) however it is worth noting that the cost of keeping someone in life for prison, if they live for another 40 years, is a couple million itself.

Someone else was quoting figures regarding the juvenile death penalty, the U.S., thankfully, no longer has the juvenile death penalty (for people who committed crimes while under the age of 18).

I, personally, don't believe the state has any right or moral authority to terminate the lives of its citizens.

Re: Capital Punishment
 

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Before you agree with the Death Penalty, you must agree to the possibility of an innocent being murdered (an innocent who could be anybody from a complete stranger to your own mother). THERE IS NO WAY AROUND THIS. None.

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What's even more interesting to me is that it is often those who argue most strongly about the corruption and fallibility of government who are in favor of the death penalty.

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This is a good point. Although I think those who commit murder and rape, etc, deserve to die, I am uneasy about the state performing that function. If I don't trust the government to deliver my mail, it seems a bit inconsistent to be in favor of allowing it to carry out executions.

On an individual basis, however, the guilt of the condemned is rarely in doubt, so you'll rarely see me protest an execution. I don't have a problem with executing Ted Bundy or the Unabomber.