Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

i don't see how anything but calling down could be correct if she "might be tilted"

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

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Ok sorta aggro lady who might be tilted raises in EP, I defend my BB with 8 6

Flop is K 6 3 I checkraise and she calls.

Turn is 8 I bet, she raises, I 3 bet, she quickly 4 bets...plan?

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If she's just ok sorta agro you're beat. She's tilting if she can't beat 86. If I wasn't sure of the read on the river I'd ch/c. But I don't hate the gamble of c/r'ing either. I'd just like a more concrete read of the tilt before giving more action than I should.

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

She would really check behind here on the river with A-A?

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

She almost always either has a set or AA. Call her down and find out. Hopefullly the river isn't a trey.

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

"She would really"

no one knows what she would really do with what. not chris, not me, probably not even her if that makes sense. just from experience i know ive seen people get backed into a corner with AA on the turn like this and they like to get the last bet in and then by the time the river comes they realise theyve put in too many bets and they check. that's why i like the line i stated.

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

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Checkraising the river is way too much action IMO.

I'd call down and hate doing so.

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These two statements don't match, Mike. You can fold to a 3-bet on the river as she's just not bluff 4-betting and bluff 3-betting river. The type of player that DD described is overplaying AK as she has DD on a lesser K.

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I don't like making folds in big pots for one bet. You're seriously suggesting putting in 6BBs and folding for a 7th (I know I just had that bluff 4bet thread -- don't call me a hypocrite :[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]:).

Anyway, the bigger point is that once she 4 bets the turn, in my opinion the likelihood she has a set or even kings up increases a LOT. She still might have AA or AK, hence I'm calling down, but, I don't think she has it anywhere close to often enough to make checkraising the river a good play.

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

Is it ever good to bet/call the river instead of c/r'ing like Joe Tall advocated? I take this line a lot in this type of situation in low limit games and it may be terrible, but I thought I'd just throw it out there.

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

"Is it ever good to bet/call the river"

bet-calling the river would be awful spew. but bet-folding would be good. once raised again on the river you are officially looking at something stronger than 8s up.

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

5-betting the turn and folding for a 6th is better than any plan involving checkraising the river, if she hits you again you're drawing dead but there's some small chance you could get her to fold a hand with outs. But the best plan of all is to just effing check-call and get to showdown and expect that since she's obviously out of control on the turn if she doesn't have you beaten, hopefully she'll be out of control and bet the river too.

-Michael

Re: 2/4 blind defense two pair hand at Commerce
 

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5-betting the turn and folding for a 6th is better than any plan involving checkraising the river

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Thank you for some sanity! This is obvious to me too just on basic poker theory.

I'll add a bit to the hand but I don't really think it matters. I called, river was another 8, giving me a boat, I check/called. We can all agree the river changed nothing?

-DeathDonkey