no more value to be had i guess
 

btn=good winning tag. bit on the laggier side i think. not much history. stacks $1,150 or so.

he opens OTB (guessing he does this like 40%, no stats tho but it seems like it), i call in BB w AJo. i dont want to discuss that.

flop JT4r. i check, he bets $44, i make it $164. i just coldcalled a raise from him OTB last orbit and instaraised his c-bet. this could matter.

Turn is a queen. i check (?) he checks back.

River is a 6. any more value to be haD?

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

Nope.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

luego says the hand was at 5/10

bet 275?

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

AA, KK and KQ too much, imo, or KJ folding

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

yeah i think it was a bet. he rarely has me beat here.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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AA, KK and KQ too much, imo, or KJ folding

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pretty sure the first three 3bet flop most of the time here.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

Definitely some value to be had, although you will be vtowning yourself against a hand like KQ/AQ/Q9 sometimes, but I still think it's worth betting. I'd bet $250 ish.

I suppose AA/KK are possible for him as well but rather unlikely imo.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

With the line you took this is a std vbet.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

You are bluffing with what hand range here exactly?

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

deuces? who cares, ppl are retarded.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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AA, KK and KQ too much, imo, or KJ folding

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pretty sure the first three 3bet flop most of the time here.

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i think that discounting those hands simply using that logic is bad. a good winning tag coule easily gotten here with one of these hands. i think the hands we want calling are folding too often for this to be a +EV betting spot.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

i dunno, tbh i would 3-bet those hands v v v vrarely

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

wait, so you are agreeing with me right? bc i was agreeing with you.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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wait, so you are agreeing with me right? bc i was agreeing with you.

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yes, luego made it sound like it was standard to 3-bet KK, AA, and KQ here, with these stacks and this situation. i'm saying that i'm pretty rarely 3-betting any of thsoe hands, and it would be my satndard to call, and i guess i'd be considered a 2p2 tag type.

so yea.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

I think that from villain's POV pretty much everything got there if he has AT/KJ (or whatever other hand you beat) so I can't really see him looking you up too light. However, I'm pretty bad at thin value.

If you bet are you calling a raise?

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

well one thing that has to be considered is that, believe it or not ae, i checkraise a pretty absurd amount of flops at times. so i think not 3betting AA/KK/QQ/KQ here would be giving up a lot i think since i am def stacking off with AJ here. im guessing he could be checking behind QJ on turn sometimes tho. i dont know. i think its its close either way.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

I'd rr pre. I'd bet river for $228 or so... he wouldn't check JQ on the turn. He COULD have something like Q9 or AQ, but certainly something like j9 or KJ is very likely. I'd vbet this river TBH.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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well one thing that has to be considered is that, believe it or not ae, i checkraise a pretty absurd amount of flops at times. so i think not 3betting AA/KK/QQ/KQ here would be giving up a lot i think since i am def stacking off with AJ here. im guessing he could be checking behind QJ on turn sometimes tho. i dont know. i think its its close either way.

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you CR an absurd amount of flops so he shoul dbe 3-betting more? thats not how i see it, and without a lot of history, i woudl be calling here with KK +

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

Don't know about you guys, but whenever I fire my 87 here on river I get fkin SNAPCALLED by all fkin jacks and tens, so I would VB.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

yeah def bet. why is everyone assuming he's good enough to know op prob won't bluff here. You'll get looked up loads

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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well one thing that has to be considered is that, believe it or not ae, i checkraise a pretty absurd amount of flops at times. so i think not 3betting AA/KK/QQ/KQ here would be giving up a lot i think since i am def stacking off with AJ here. im guessing he could be checking behind QJ on turn sometimes tho. i dont know. i think its its close either way.

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you CR an absurd amount of flops so he shoul dbe 3-betting more? thats not how i see it, and without a lot of history, i woudl be calling here with KK +

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well ppl are retarded like johan implied. and ofc he should def be 3-betting wider if i c/r a bunch. going into calldownmode to defend wouldnt be very optimal i dont think.

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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well one thing that has to be considered is that, believe it or not ae, i checkraise a pretty absurd amount of flops at times. so i think not 3betting AA/KK/QQ/KQ here would be giving up a lot i think since i am def stacking off with AJ here. im guessing he could be checking behind QJ on turn sometimes tho. i dont know. i think its its close either way.

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you CR an absurd amount of flops so he shoul dbe 3-betting more? thats not how i see it, and without a lot of history, i woudl be calling here with KK +

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well ppl are retarded like johan implied. and ofc he should def be 3-betting wider if i c/r a bunch. going into calldownmode to defend wouldnt be very optimal i dont think.

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my thoughts are that it's a bluff often, ass i assume since you don't often have hands you want to CR and stack off with. if it's a bluff often, he makes his hand look like two sevens by flatting, and he gets the 280 second barrel

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

so isnt AA/KK/QQ/KQ betting turn always then?

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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so isnt AA/KK/QQ/KQ betting turn always then?

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hmmm yea thats a better point imo than 3-betting the flop, but i dunno about always. i'd say usually and i'd be betting the turn witht hose hands >half the time i'd think, but at the same time it's not a beautiful board for two aces or two kings, maybe the guy doesn't want to call a CRAI or something and thinks there is more value in turning it into a bluff catcher.

pretty sure on these boards there are very few absolutes.

still, i feel like if you bet your hand really looks like somethingl like KQ and he will call with better obv always and fold smaller jacks or AT or whatever

i can obv be convinced otherwise but i just really think you v-town yourself a LOT here, so if i bet, i'd bet like half pot

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

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two aces or two kings

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this is totally irrelevent and OT, but i've always wondered why people say this rather than AA/KK

Re: no more value to be had i guess
 

well HE might expect ME to bet all my made hands on turn and just think im just on some spazzy move. tbh id probably check both KQ and JT on turn but once again, ppl cant read hands.