Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

even if he did grim the guy on the website money, whats the big deal? the guy only loses 7 days of his time and some increased annoyance. i dont think its a big deal is that weird?

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
even if he did grim the guy on the website money, whats the big deal? the guy only loses 7 days of his time and some increased annoyance. i dont think its a big deal is that weird?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly I can count about 12 much more annoying situations I've encountered in the last few business deals I was involved in and there is absolutely zero bad blood, we will work together again, and the suggestion of attacking the person's reputation in public would make me question the IQ/sanity of person advocating such an approach.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
even if he did grim the guy on the website money, whats the big deal? the guy only loses 7 days of his time and some increased annoyance. i dont think its a big deal is that weird?

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like the complaint was probably more about the mode this was handled rather than just the stuff falling through. I suspect kyle was probably making the whole thing sound more certain than it was.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it weird that I always thought of his name being pronounced "Ky-leb" not "Kyle-B". Maybe it's because it's not capitalized.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even if he did grim the guy on the website money, whats the big deal? the guy only loses 7 days of his time and some increased annoyance. i dont think its a big deal is that weird?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly I can count about 12 much more annoying situations I've encountered in the last few business deals I was involved in and there is absolutely zero bad blood, we will work together again, and the suggestion of attacking the person's reputation in public would make me question the IQ/sanity of person advocating such an approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmm.... Someone negotiating a deal to buy your business and then failing to pay is kinda a big deal. Sure its just an online affiliate business, but that would create an enormous hassle. If you would do business with someone like that again then I severely doubt your ability to judge people.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.imgred.com/http://www.kic...ets4/kgb50.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A+

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even if he did grim the guy on the website money, whats the big deal? the guy only loses 7 days of his time and some increased annoyance. i dont think its a big deal is that weird?

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly I can count about 12 much more annoying situations I've encountered in the last few business deals I was involved in and there is absolutely zero bad blood, we will work together again, and the suggestion of attacking the person's reputation in public would make me question the IQ/sanity of person advocating such an approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmm.... Someone negotiating a deal to buy your business and then failing to pay is kinda a big deal...

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If you would do business with someone like that again then I severely doubt your ability to judge people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do business to make money. Dealing with ego-centric, busy and somewhat inconsiderate people can be very +EV. I am not saying that Kyle fits this description. The point is that slight delay in payment or one minor deal falling through to my acute displeasure but which otherwise leaves future equity stemming from the relationship availible will be dealt with privately and with tact. The most I can say is that in the future I would employ more protections such as option contracts, escrow, negotiation fees, etc. This is just business people. You expose yourself to small losses inflicted by even the most well-intentioned potential partners if you don't use a little common sense. Some of the most profitable relationships I've had are with people who I employ very restrictive legal/negotiation tools to limit the potential for frustrations and spillage in the event of failure-to-launch.

Clearly I believe prop bets should be paid on time. I just take major exception to the process utilized here. I should also not that any big prop bets I've down have included payment penalties. Same thing with stake make-up or other such things. Also, people really need to explore some very simple concepts involving commercial paper, escrow and secured transactions. Everytime I read of some poker player getting burned for six figures or having to settle for some lame prop bet settlement I wish I had the time and desire to start a practice centered on the poker circuit for facilitating stakes, prop bets and loans.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]

I do business to make money. Dealing with ego-centric, busy and somewhat inconsiderate people can be very +EV. I am not saying that Kyle fits this description. The point is that slight delay in payment or one minor deal falling through to my acute displeasure but which otherwise leaves future equity stemming from the relationship availible will be dealt with privately and with tact. The most I can say is that in the future I would employ more protections such as option contracts, escrow, negotiation fees, etc. This is just business people. You expose yourself to small losses inflicted by even the most well-intentioned potential partners if you don't use a little common sense. Some of the most profitable relationships I've had are with people who I employ very restrictive legal/negotiation tools to limit the potential for frustrations in the event of failure-to-launch.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, on the flipside, if none of this is a particularly big deal and there are all these wonderful ways to get around it, then how is it a big deal to mention it publicly?

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

I lost interest in this thread yesterday. I just stated the truth and of course have emails to back it up.

What got me to post was his attitude towards me when I tried to collect what we agreed on. It wasn't a big deal until he started acting like I was the bad guy for bothering him for money. It sounded to me just like the way he is treating OP in this thread.

Alobar said it best and this is the best post in the thread IMO:

[ QUOTE ]
dude, you effed this one up. Quit the stupid excuse making and the "I dont care what you think, I have people that can vouche for me, blah blah blah" stuff.

Be a man, admit you screwed this up, stop making excuses, and learn from the mistake like a mature person would. You'll come off waaaaaaaay better than the way you are now. It's ok to make mistakes and screw stuff up, thats how most people learn. Just dont be one of those idiots that thinks their [censored] dont stink and they are never wrong, and who in the face of overwhelming criticism think its everyone else who is being retarded or out of line or wrong.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thats how I feel. Treat people good. Tell them the truth if you can't come up with the agreed upon money.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.imgred.com/http://www.kic...ets4/kgb50.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A+

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please translate this?

Also please more pissing battles over lawsuits that have a less than 0% chance of ever actually happening. Can't get enough.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

It is the loss of control over the interpretation of the statements and what economic consequences they may have to the reputation of a fellow human being that trouble me. Especially when their are other avenues that are just as effective and raise no such risks.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

Also, if anyone thinks that I am talking about a lawsuit actually occurring then either I mis-spoke or reading comprehension is suffering. Conduct being of the color and quality that could potentially give rise to liability depending on the chain of causation it starts is what I am talking about. There is no threat of litigation here. Plus, I am not personally involved.

What I do care about is that lack of a safe, reasonable and mature process for mediating disputes that does not involve imprudent and risky public discourse.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone please translate this?

[/ QUOTE ]
Pay him. Pay that man his money ldo.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

Is that from Rounders? (Yes, I've never seen it.)

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lost interest in this thread yesterday. I just stated the truth and of course have emails to back it up.

What got me to post was his attitude towards me when I tried to collect what we agreed on. It wasn't a big deal until he started acting like I was the bad guy for bothering him for money. It sounded to me just like the way he is treating OP in this thread.

Alobar said it best and this is the best post in the thread IMO:

[ QUOTE ]
dude, you effed this one up. Quit the stupid excuse making and the "I dont care what you think, I have people that can vouche for me, blah blah blah" stuff.

Be a man, admit you screwed this up, stop making excuses, and learn from the mistake like a mature person would. You'll come off waaaaaaaay better than the way you are now. It's ok to make mistakes and screw stuff up, thats how most people learn. Just dont be one of those idiots that thinks their [censored] dont stink and they are never wrong, and who in the face of overwhelming criticism think its everyone else who is being retarded or out of line or wrong.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thats how I feel. Treat people good. Tell them the truth if you can't come up with the agreed upon money.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you have already noted and I have concurred with, nobody disagrees that what you alleged occurred would be frustrating and shake your confidence in the parties involved. Also, nobody but a complete idiot would try to support the antithesis of the Golden Rule. The problem here is about process, format, substantiated accusations, and inflicting harm in the public domain that can have unforeseen consequences that could potentially be disproportionate to the alleged wrongdoing and therefore undeserved. If you response to this is some cavalier variation on the "you get what's coming to you" just save it. This camp-fire wisdom has already infected this thread.

Money gets made when dispute resolution is conducted in proper forums with the assistance of neutral parties. Not taking a dump in front of thousands so they can fling it around in every which direction. Attempting to essentially blacklist a person on the basis of the conduct alleged here is excessive. This may be more clear to me then others because Kyle has a 800 credit score with me personally. Still, the issues this type of thread raises should be of concern to everyone.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just got home 10 minutes ago. The Indians won the series. I won a huge bet on Dallas ML with a friend.

Calm. Down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. I'm not sure you could come off any worse in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would be fun to see him try though

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is that from Rounders? (Yes, I've never seen it.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, it's from the end of it.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

The whole black and white thing threw me off.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

wtf go watch rounders now

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
even if he did grim the guy on the website money, whats the big deal? the guy only loses 7 days of his time and some increased annoyance. i dont think its a big deal is that weird?

[/ QUOTE ]

37 days not 7. 30 + 7 = 37.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

Thread delivers. IMHO KyleB comes off very poorly in this thread, OP comes off well if a bit overeager, the $40k website dude comes off well and beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I lost interest in this thread yesterday. I just stated the truth and of course have emails to back it up.

What got me to post was his attitude towards me when I tried to collect what we agreed on. It wasn't a big deal until he started acting like I was the bad guy for bothering him for money. It sounded to me just like the way he is treating OP in this thread.

Alobar said it best and this is the best post in the thread IMO:

[ QUOTE ]
dude, you effed this one up. Quit the stupid excuse making and the "I dont care what you think, I have people that can vouche for me, blah blah blah" stuff.

Be a man, admit you screwed this up, stop making excuses, and learn from the mistake like a mature person would. You'll come off waaaaaaaay better than the way you are now. It's ok to make mistakes and screw stuff up, thats how most people learn. Just dont be one of those idiots that thinks their [censored] dont stink and they are never wrong, and who in the face of overwhelming criticism think its everyone else who is being retarded or out of line or wrong.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thats how I feel. Treat people good. Tell them the truth if you can't come up with the agreed upon money.

[/ QUOTE ]

As you have already noted and I have concurred with, nobody disagrees that what you alleged occurred would be frustrating and shake your confidence in the parties involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, agreeing to buy a business and then making the business owner wait over a month and then breaking your word is just one of those frustrating things that might possibly shake your confidence in the parties involved, just a tiny thing what's the big deal what a crybaby.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, nobody but a complete idiot would try to support the antithesis of the Golden Rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow ok you like to hear yourself type big words, yo it does NOT make you sound smart. You sound like a lot of the guys I went to law school with.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem here is about process, format, substantiated accusations, and inflicting harm in the public domain that can have unforeseen consequences

[/ QUOTE ]

OK ya what ttt do you go to, only some pompous 1L would type something like this.

There's no problem with the process or format bob said something that's apparently 99.9% true and kyle hasn't disputed it in the least.

No tort there. Take KyleB's penis out of your mouth.

[ QUOTE ]
that could potentially be disproportionate to the alleged wrongdoing and therefore undeserved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still not a tort. Still take KyleB's penis out of your mouth.

[ QUOTE ]
If you response to this is some cavalier variation on the "you get what's coming to you" just save it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You get what's coming to you and if some guy says you did something really dishonest and unethical and you don't dispute it then he's probably not lying.

[ QUOTE ]
Money gets made when dispute resolution is conducted in proper forums with the assistance of neutral parties.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously dude, what ttt do you go to? I'm gonna guess Appalachian State?

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, I think he comes off like some kind of 1L that thinks he will be Perry Mason in a couple years.

Either that or he's a paralegal.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

The real issue here is that even thought I know kyleb's name is Kyle I still pronounce it "ky-leb" in my head. If he doesn't repudiate this "kyle-b" pronunciation nonsense he needs to get demodded.

As to the thread drama, the dude got paid. 9 days is a longish time, but sometimes grownups with real jobs are busy doing grownup stuff and the UIGEA makes all of our "use poker sites as free clearinghouses" shenanigans harder. When sportsbooks are giving money away to people who bet on Cleveland it's conceivable that someone might not have funds instantly available for FTP transfers. Cope.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

I do think an "owned" pic may be in order after that

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thread delivers. IMHO KyleB comes off very poorly in this thread, OP comes off well if a bit overeager, the $40k website dude comes off well and beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah the thread kinda annoyed me for a while but it gave me a whole bunch of people to add to my ignore list (OP, Bob and Kyle aren't any of those people, FWIW). I do think what happened to Bob, from Bob's perspective, clearly sucks, but I'm someone who has done, is doing, and will do business with Kyle in the future and his reputation is fine with me. But that's based on personal deals and successes and not on what's in this thread, but it's also why I don't judge many people based on what I read in threads and I certainly don't trust people or distrust people based on their online persona.

Rob

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
As to the thread drama, the dude got paid. 9 days is a longish time, but sometimes grownups with real jobs are busy doing grownup stuff and the UIGEA makes all of our "use poker sites as free clearinghouses" shenanigans harder. When sportsbooks are giving money away to people who bet on Cleveland it's conceivable that someone might not have funds instantly available for FTP transfers. Cope.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you describe is fine. Not being the slightest bit apologetic, and actually coming off as kind of a dick about it is not.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As to the thread drama, the dude got paid. 9 days is a longish time, but sometimes grownups with real jobs are busy doing grownup stuff and the UIGEA makes all of our "use poker sites as free clearinghouses" shenanigans harder. When sportsbooks are giving money away to people who bet on Cleveland it's conceivable that someone might not have funds instantly available for FTP transfers. Cope.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you describe is fine. Not being the slightest bit apologetic, and actually coming off as kind of a dick about it is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

kyleb seems to revel in having a dickish persona, at least on the internet, so I suspect he'll be okay with this.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

thread got boring after page 16 lol

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
thread got boring after page 16 lol

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
What got me to post was his attitude towards me when I tried to collect what we agreed on. It wasn't a big deal until he started acting like I was the bad guy for bothering him for money.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, there's absolutely nothing more infuriating than when someone owes you money, and they act like *you're* the one being unreasonable as they continuously delay in paying you back. I actually prefer it when someone hides from me to avoid paying me, rather than getting the kinds of douchey responses that kyleb was sending the OP.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

A $200 bet that was in effect for over 2 months and then when it's finished the OP still hasn't been paid a week later...how can you even have the nerve to say to him "what's the rush?", that is complete and utter [censored].

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

Oh, and the rush is, the longer the money owed scenario drifts on, the less likely the OP is to get paid. I made that mistake last year and I was getting the same kind of wank responses as the OP is getting when I asked for my $$$. I never got the money back and never will.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

I dont pronounce it kyle-B or ky-leb, I prounounce it kyle-eb or at least I do in my head. I've kept the kyle intact.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thread delivers. IMHO KyleB comes off very poorly in this thread, OP comes off well if a bit overeager, the $40k website dude comes off well and beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the OP cared as much about the money as he cared about the fact that kyleb was being dismissive and basically treating him like a little bitch when the OP came to collect.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thread delivers. IMHO KyleB comes off very poorly in this thread, OP comes off well if a bit overeager, the $40k website dude comes off well and beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the OP cared as much about the money as he cared about the fact that kyleb was being dismissive and basically treating him like a little bitch when the OP came to collect.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I ever wanted was a thorough and thought out response. The bet was made 2+ months ago so I was expecting to pay or be paid the very day that the bet was over. I shouldn't have to chase anyone down for money. It really wasn't about the money it was about the attitude of kyleb "yeah ill get to it later on" mentality. So I took matters into my own hands and got on the offensive and it worked. Clearly it has shown a flaw in his character

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, I think he comes off like some kind of 1L that thinks he will be Perry Mason in a couple years.

Either that or he's a paralegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are making many assumptions--all of which are false. If you knew who I was you may or may not be emberassed but you would definitely need to change your tune. Regardless, take care and try to let go of whatever resentment it is that is fueling this attack.

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thread delivers. IMHO KyleB comes off very poorly in this thread, OP comes off well if a bit overeager, the $40k website dude comes off well and beset comes off mixed ways (smart, but a lawyer).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah the thread kinda annoyed me for a while but it gave me a whole bunch of people to add to my ignore list (OP, Bob and Kyle aren't any of those people, FWIW). I do think what happened to Bob, from Bob's perspective, clearly sucks, but I'm someone who has done, is doing, and will do business with Kyle in the future and his reputation is fine with me. But that's based on personal deals and successes and not on what's in this thread, but it's also why I don't judge many people based on what I read in threads and I certainly don't trust people or distrust people based on their online persona.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Rob you can't ignore me YET bro

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kyleb for super-mod due to consistent hostility towards multiple idiots

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Mod Loses Prop Bet, Won\'t Respond To Me
 

yay I'm back from korea and naturally the first thing I see when I log in after 18 hours of flying is this thread has 85838234 more posts for no apparent reason.

show's over, nothing to see here, next person to disregard instructions gets banned for giving me a headache