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-   -   2 river value bet questions (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=538253)

private joker 11-04-2007 02:53 PM

2 river value bet questions
 
I haven't played online in a looooong time, so I'm really rusty; this is like my second week back at 5/10 short.

Hand 1: BB is relatively unknown but is playing on at least 2-3 tables FWIW; Button is kind of weak and plays straightforward postflop:

PokerStars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, BB calls.

River: (8.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks...

Is this a check or a bet/fold?

***

Hand 2: I hardly ever limp PF but this seemed like the spot. The limper is super-fishy and the blinds are fairly loose; I wanted to get in the pot on the button, but didn't think I had enough hand to raise and preferred to see a flop and then evaluate from there. BB in this hand is new to the table, no read or stats.

PokerStars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, CO checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">BB raises</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, CO calls.

River: (10.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, CO checks...

Bet/fold? Check? Bet/call?

NinaWilliams 11-04-2007 02:59 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
Hand #1 cap preflop. You have a nice equity edge, so push it. Dont donk the flop, its never getting checked through and i want to see what bb does before I put chips into the pot. As played, ya bet the river. Hes never folding a pair here and a king is unlikely. You can fold to a raise.

Hand #2 I dont think your hand is strong enough to raise the turn, but if it is, why isnt the river an easy vb?

DeathDonkey 11-04-2007 03:01 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
I bet/fold hand 1 and bet/call hand 2. I CR the flop in hand 1. You play pretty great good to see you back online.

-DeathDonkey

*TT* 11-04-2007 03:36 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
1) Cap pre-flop. Your going to see a rather wide range from the button, you usually still have an equity edge. In aggressive shorthanded games you should c/r the flop rather than bet to encourage a raise from an aggressive button. I see what you were trying to do but this is not the right spot for that. Bet-fold the river is the best line.

2) The limp is a little thin but OK if the blinds are loose and passive. Post flop its played perfectly, bet/call if the opponent is tricky, bet fold if they are passive - of course this may change if you get an over-call.

Tryptamean 11-04-2007 04:03 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
hand 1; def cap preflop... i duno about a c/r as played. I usually c/c

hand2; yeah limp is good, depending on how fishy the weak player is. on the flop, i shift to calldown mode here most likely. After all, you limped into this pot with a pretty weak hand, and you got a decent amount of action on he flop with tpnk. either one of these guys could have you beat. On the turn, fishy dude could easily havea 5 given his flop coldcall

MitchL 11-04-2007 04:08 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
I think the river in hand 1 is a pretty easy bet. I agree w/ DD that it needs to be b/f. The multi-tablers at this limit don't tend to be spazzy and you wouldve heard from a K by now. His range is heavily weighted towards pps.

BryanC 11-04-2007 04:29 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
[ QUOTE ]
2) The limp is a little thin but OK if the blinds are loose and passive. Post flop its played perfectly, bet/call if the opponent is tricky, bet fold if they are passive - of course this may change if you get an over-call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you here but OP stated that the BB is new to the table and we have no reads on him yet, against an unknown opponent are we more inclined to take the free SD and check behind?

*TT* 11-04-2007 04:59 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) The limp is a little thin but OK if the blinds are loose and passive. Post flop its played perfectly, bet/call if the opponent is tricky, bet fold if they are passive - of course this may change if you get an over-call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you here but OP stated that the BB is new to the table and we have no reads on him yet, against an unknown opponent are we more inclined to take the free SD and check behind?

[/ QUOTE ]

he also said "and the blinds are fairly loose" - this is contradictory of course but what I used to make my recommendation.

BryanC 11-04-2007 05:23 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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Quote:
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2) The limp is a little thin but OK if the blinds are loose and passive. Post flop its played perfectly, bet/call if the opponent is tricky, bet fold if they are passive - of course this may change if you get an over-call.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I agree with you here but OP stated that the BB is new to the table and we have no reads on him yet, against an unknown opponent are we more inclined to take the free SD and check behind?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



he also said "and the blinds are fairly loose" - this is contradictory of course but what I used to make my recommendation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I missed that one. First time I read it I only caught the BB is new to the table bit. My question still stands though, Im pretty sure I check behind here some amount of the time would that be reasonable against an unknown or would you still bet it anyway ?

*TT* 11-04-2007 06:34 PM

Re: 2 river value bet questions
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quote:
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2) The limp is a little thin but OK if the blinds are loose and passive. Post flop its played perfectly, bet/call if the opponent is tricky, bet fold if they are passive - of course this may change if you get an over-call.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I agree with you here but OP stated that the BB is new to the table and we have no reads on him yet, against an unknown opponent are we more inclined to take the free SD and check behind?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



he also said "and the blinds are fairly loose" - this is contradictory of course but what I used to make my recommendation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I missed that one. First time I read it I only caught the BB is new to the table bit. My question still stands though, Im pretty sure I check behind here some amount of the time would that be reasonable against an unknown or would you still bet it anyway ?

[/ QUOTE ]

what range of hands are you including for the unknowns? You beat the vast majority of their range on the river. Think of the 7 on the river is actually a good card, if anyone had an OESD you might get looked up now on the river if if they just made a hand that beats you you will know it fast - fold if they are passive. The bet shows value in the long run.


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