Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

I have received a number of PMs recently asking for addition to the tools sticky; though I must admit my finger isn't really on the pulse of STT anymore - I am not qualified to decide which PMs are definitely net positives to the community and which are not.

So this thread is specifically for the purpose of posters reviewing some of the newest software releases out there. YOU ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO READ THIS THREAD, and if you hate spam, PLEASE STOP NOW!!! This thread is for three types of people:

1) If you like to try all the different SnG software out there - to post reviews and comments
2) If you wish you had time to try all the different SnG software out there but don't, you can read reviews left by people in part 1
3) To advertise new software / new releases of software

If none of this matters to you, go no further. Eventually, however, products with a generally positive response will get added to the tools sticky. Here's a list of the products I've gotten PMs about recently...

jukofyork's PartySNGHelper AHK script (I expect this one to make the sticky pretty easily
Qubit's ICM Poker.com
SpadeICM

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

Partysng helper is essential for anyone that consistently multitables on party. I have never had a single problem with it

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

I've developed a website called ICM Poker where you can get the exact same results as SnGPT for free! My "ICM Applicator" behaves identically to Sit n Go Power Tools and is accessible online with absolutely no downloads. In addition, the ICM Calculator is capable of computing ICM equities for situations with up to 10 players and up to 10 payout spots, also with no downloads. Enjoy!!

http://www.icmpoker.com/images/ad.gif

Feedback appreciated,
--Qubit

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

I guess i can deposit my calculator link here too:
ICM Nash Calculator

Summary:
* "Normal" ICM Equity calculations
* Approximation of Nash Equilibrium Ranges for SnGs
* Browser-based / free / no signup.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

You nash calculator is gold.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Partysng helper is essential for anyone that consistently multitables on party. I have never had a single problem with it

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Partysng helper is essential for anyone that consistently multitables on party. I have never had a single problem with it

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
#3

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You nash calculator is gold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

Am I missing where ICM Poker allows you to set ranges for anybody in the hand?



Also I noticed on their forum that someone mentioned using flash for a hand range slider; you can use the ajax toolkit for .net (since the site is written in dotnet) - http://www.asp.net/AJAX/AjaxControlT...er/Slider.aspx

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

From Wikipedia Nash Equilibrium - "Stated simply, you and I are in Nash equilibrium if I am making the best decision I can, taking into account your decision, and you are making the best decision you can, taking into account my decision. Likewise, many players are in Nash equilibrium if each one is making the best decision (s)he can, taking into account the decisions of the others."

For the nash calculator - is it hurting us, helping us, or doesn't matter when our opponents aren't in equilibrium with us?

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing where ICM Poker allows you to set ranges for anybody in the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

You just type them in where they appear, replacing the defaults. The interface could do with some work though. Took me ages to work out where the results were.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing where ICM Poker allows you to set ranges for anybody in the hand?



Also I noticed on their forum that someone mentioned using flash for a hand range slider; you can use the ajax toolkit for .net (since the site is written in dotnet) - http://www.asp.net/AJAX/AjaxControlT...er/Slider.aspx

[/ QUOTE ]

that was meeee - thanks for the link [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing where ICM Poker allows you to set ranges for anybody in the hand?



Also I noticed on their forum that someone mentioned using flash for a hand range slider; you can use the ajax toolkit for .net (since the site is written in dotnet) - http://www.asp.net/AJAX/AjaxControlT...er/Slider.aspx

[/ QUOTE ]

that was meeee - thanks for the link [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well the developer of the site has to impliment it...I was just telling him a way to do it without flash using the programming technology the site was written in (asp.net) but that's really getting way off topic.

But I agree that the site does need to impliment some sort of range feature although it does accept %'s.

Also, I'm not sure if it's his web host or what but the site seems to load very slow at times.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]

For the Nash calculator - is it hurting us, helping us, or doesn't matter when our opponents aren't in equilibrium with us?

[/ QUOTE ]
For heads up your opponents strategy doesn't matter since any deviation they make from equilibrium will only increase your EV. With more than 2 players the game is no longer zero sum between any two players since chipEV isn't $EV. This means that if you were to stick to the nash equilibrium strategy your opponents can now hurt your EV by giving up EV themselves by calling too wide, pushing too tight, etc. So it certainly does matter that your opponents aren't in equilibrium with you. This is why in reality we try to play in such a way as to maximally exploit our opponents mistakes by adjusting to whatever ranges we put them on.

That said, I think the Nash calculator is a great tool that has a lot of application. The ranges suggested give you a good starting point for many ICM problems and the solutions themselves can be used in situations against good regs. I find EQDiff very interesting as well since it gives you some idea how your expected equity changes due to position, stack size, etc.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
For heads up your opponents strategy doesn't matter since any deviation they make from equilibrium will only increase your EV

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you quantify if this is the case?

For instance, if an opponent isn't shoving as wide as NE would dictate, you are gaining EV from the extra blinds you get. But, if you don't stray from NE and call based on NE, he will be gaining EV on your calls.

Which effect is stronger?

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

About the nash-calculator:
If you have any suggestions to improve the usability, please let me know.

@Devin:
[ QUOTE ]
For instance, if an opponent isn't shoving as wide as NE would dictate, you are gaining EV from the extra blinds you get. But, if you don't stray from NE and call based on NE, he will be gaining EV on your calls.

Which effect is stronger?

[/ QUOTE ]

By definition, in a Nash Equilibrium no player can increase his own EV by changing his strategy (if all other players stick to the Nash Strategy).

So, to answer your question: The second effect must not be stronger (otherwise we don't have a real NE). [The effects could theoretically cancel each other out and the strategy-change may be EV-neutral. But for NLHE-HU Push/Fold a deviation from the NE is typically -EV if your opponent plays Nash.]

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For heads up your opponents strategy doesn't matter since any deviation they make from equilibrium will only increase your EV

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you quantify if this is the case?

For instance, if an opponent isn't shoving as wide as NE would dictate, you are gaining EV from the extra blinds you get. But, if you don't stray from NE and call based on NE, he will be gaining EV on your calls.

Which effect is stronger?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I might check the maths myself just to be sure. Say you have 10BBs each heads up and you are on the BB. You both play optimaly so SB pushes 59.0% and you call 37.6%. This gives you a range-vs-range equity of 54.9% when you call.

Now calculating your EV in #BBs:
EV = P(opponent push)[P(call)[P(win)*EV(win)+P(lose)*EV(lose)]+P(fold)EV(fold)] + P(opponent fold)*EV(opponent fold)
= (.59)[0.376[0.549*10+.451*(-10)]+0.624*(-1)] + 0.41*0.5
= -0.151 + .205 = +0.054 BBs

This time your opponent changes strategy and pushes 22.7%, you continue calling with a 37.6% range. Your new range-vs-range equity is 45.1%.

EV = P(opponent push)[P(call)[P(win)*EV(win)+P(lose)*EV(lose)]+P(fold)EV(fold)] + P(opponent fold)*EV(opponent fold)
= (.227)[0.376*[0.454*10+0.546*(-10)]+0.624*(-1)] + 0.773*0.5
= -0.220 + 0.386 = +0.166 BBs

(I ignored card removal effects)

As expected the equity you gain from your opponent folding the SB too often more than makes up for the fact you are calling with a range that is way behind. However, if you had adapted to your opponents new range your EV would be even higher. You might wonder if your opponent limping in a certain % of the time might improve his tight-pushing strategy by not giving up the SB as often. But by pushing all his best hands he has weakened his limping range enough so that you can push very wide (often ATC) profitably if he limps. In most cases this strategy would be even worse for your opponent.

Edit: Forgot to carry the one

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've developed a website called ICM Poker where you can get the exact same results as SnGPT for free!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Feedback appreciated,
--Qubit

[/ QUOTE ]


Did you get permission from Eastbay to use the endorsements of SNGPT (including endorsements from Dan Harrington and 2+2 forum members) to promote your product? Do you have Eastbay's permission to use the SNGPT logo on your webpage?

Until these questions are answered I don't believe it's appropriate to add this software to the link.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

Bradley,

[ QUOTE ]
Am I missing where ICM Poker allows you to set ranges for anybody in the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you go to the ICM Applicator do you see a the poker table with the images like this:
http://www.icmpoker.com/images/player_key.jpg

If you did see those, then click on them to edit their contents. There is a description below the applicator
detailing the available hand range inputs.

[ QUOTE ]
Also I noticed on their forum that someone mentioned using flash for a hand range slider; you can use the ajax toolkit for .net (since the site is written in dotnet) - http://www.asp.net/AJAX/AjaxControlT...er/Slider.aspx

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the suggestion and we will certainly implement into our new version. We are in the process of redesigning our applicator to make it portable and skinnable so that it can easily be integrated into any website. I'll post back when it is completed.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you get permission from Eastbay to use the endorsements of SNGPT (including endorsements from Dan Harrington and 2+2 forum members) to promote your product? Do you have Eastbay's permission to use the SNGPT logo on your webpage?

[/ QUOTE ]

We emailed him when we launched our site and he didn't respond. He responded a few days ago saying that he wants his his handle and product name removed from my site. Although I don't think he has much legal ground, I told him I'd do it. There will be major changes happening around ICM Poker in the next couple weeks. I've been busy but tomorrow I will complete his request.

--
Qubit

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

plexig,

I was looking at your Nash Calculator and just compared it to the numbers in the SNGPT and found some different results.

For example,
250-500 blinds, 5000 stacks for both players.
SNGPT tutorial says SB pushes 71%, your site says SB pushes 58.4%.

Do you know what might account for the different results? I've double checked from my end, but me screwing it up somehow is always a possibility too. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

I just checked that case against the solutions in Mathematics of Poker and SNGPT, and the push-solution on my site matches the MoP/SnGPT solution 100% here.

The call-range is off for 2 hands (K4o and Q8o).

Are you sure you checked against the R=10 table?

ICM Link to the R=10 HU Case

EDIT: Just noticed your mistake. The SNGPT Tutorial says SB pushes 43s 71% of the time. SNGPT uses mixed strategies, so 43s is not played always - but only 71% of the time. This does *not* mean SB is pushin 71% of all hands.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

LOL, somehow I figured this might be the case. Thanks for the clarification. And the site.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also I noticed on their forum that someone mentioned using flash for a hand range slider; you can use the ajax toolkit for .net (since the site is written in dotnet) - http://www.asp.net/AJAX/AjaxControlT...er/Slider.aspx

[/ QUOTE ]

We have updated the the ICM Applicator slightly and added and slider for hand range % for each player.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

Pretty sweet sliders man [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

Does anyone else have problems with PT/PaHud causing their computer to lag when they're playing alot of tables? I played some 25-tabling sessions with them running and my computer randomly started lagging. Eventually it got out of control and I started timing out.

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

The ICM Applicator available at www.icmpoker.com/applicator.aspx is now skinnable. Anyone who desires can now skin and integrate the ICM Applicator into their own webpage at absolutely no charge.

Regards,
Qubit

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

There will be major changes happening around ICM Poker in the next couple weeks.
--
Qubit

[/ QUOTE ]

What are the major changes?

Re: Software Review Thread - For Tools Sticky. (SPAM within?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
There will be major changes happening around ICM Poker in the next couple weeks.
--
Qubit

[/ QUOTE ]

What are the major changes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since my original post we have begun many changes. First and foremost, you may now gain unlimited access to the ICM Applicator now for only $6.00/mo. Any visitor will be granted 15 free calculations per day.

We redesigned the appearance of the applicator and also added slider bars to increase efficiency.

We are also in the midst of developing a partner system where partners skin and integrate the applicator into their own webpage and as a result, pay ICM Poker only 40% of any subscription purchases they refer.

We have begun developing our ICM Applicator Pro which should give SnGWiz a nice run for its money.

Finally, we are talking with a number of authors to try and build an extensive library of STT articles.

One of the greatest features we recently implemented was the query string implementation. Now you link your forum posts directly to the ICM calculation. Example Link [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

I'll post back with any new notable changes,
Qubit