$5/10 NL hand
 

Sorry but I still havn't figured out how to use hand converters. I'll bold the key parts to try to make it a bit easier to read....

Full Tilt Poker Game #4290690760: Table Jewel Springs - $5/$10 - No Limit Omaha H/L - 7:13:42 ET - 2007/11/25
Seat 1: Assani Fisher ($1,308.55)
Seat 2: fightingchicken ($950)
Seat 3: maddog8 ($1,047)
Seat 4: SwingRoll ($390)
Seat 5: desgrippes ($1,456.75)
Seat 6: CameoCandy ($801)
Seat 7: shoe44 ($315)
Seat 8: justnutzzz ($1,322.25), is sitting out
Seat 9: HipHopNDontStop ($1,739.55)
HipHopNDontStop posts the small blind of $5
Assani Fisher posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Assani Fisher [2s Qc 9s Ac]
fightingchicken has 15 seconds left to act
fightingchicken calls $10
maddog8 folds
SwingRoll calls $10
desgrippes calls $10
CameoCandy has 15 seconds left to act
CameoCandy raises to $65
shoe44 folds
HipHopNDontStop folds
Assani Fisher calls $55
fightingchicken calls $55
SwingRoll has 15 seconds left to act
SwingRoll calls $55
desgrippes calls $55
*** FLOP *** [Qs 5s 2c]


Ok, so we have $325 in the pot, 5 players, I have top and bottom pair and a bad flush draw with no low draw, I'm first to act. Whats your play?



Assani Fisher checks
fightingchicken has 15 seconds left to act
fightingchicken checks
SwingRoll checks
desgrippes checks
CameoCandy has 15 seconds left to act
CameoCandy bets $140


Small bet could be a lot of things. He was last to act and could've seen the turn for free. Three guys left to act behind me. Whats your play?


Results in white(please comment before seeing results though):

<font color="white"> Assani Fisher has 15 seconds left to act
Assani Fisher has requested TIME
Assani Fisher calls $140
justnutzzz has returned
fightingchicken folds
SwingRoll folds
desgrippes folds
*** TURN *** [Qs 5s 2c] [Th]
Assani Fisher bets $610
CameoCandy has 15 seconds left to act
CameoCandy calls $596, and is all in
Assani Fisher shows [2s Qc 9s Ac]
CameoCandy shows [7h Ah 3c 7d]
Uncalled bet of $14 returned to Assani Fisher
*** RIVER *** [Qs 5s 2c Th] [Kc]
Assani Fisher shows two pair, Queens and Twos, for high
CameoCandy shows a pair of Sevens, for high
Assani Fisher wins the pot ($1,799) with two pair, Queens and Twos
CameoCandy is sitting out
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $1,802 | Rake $3
Board: [Qs 5s 2c Th Kc]
Seat 1: Assani Fisher (big blind) showed [2s Qc 9s Ac] and won ($1,799) with HI: two pair, Queens and Twos
Seat 2: fightingchicken folded on the Flop
Seat 3: maddog8 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: SwingRoll folded on the Flop
Seat 5: desgrippes folded on the Flop
Seat 6: CameoCandy showed [7h Ah 3c 7d] and lost with HI: a pair of Sevens
Seat 7: shoe44 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: justnutzzz is sitting out
Seat 9: HipHopNDontStop (small blind) folded before the Flop
</font>

89,874 and counting

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

I fold.. what card do you want to see on the turn besides a 2 or Q

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

Obviously any 2 or Q works. I'm also thinking that any non spade 9,T,J,K is good for our hand. A non spade 7 or 8 puts us in the toughest spot. We're getting over 3-1 on our money.

89,872 and counting

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so we have $325 in the pot, 5 players, I have top and bottom pair and a bad flush draw with no low draw, I'm first to act. Whats your play?

[/ QUOTE ]Check/fold.

Hi Assani - Keep in mind that I am primarily a fixed limit player.

Your starting hand is not great, but it has several nice two-card combinations (call them features) and certainly is playable. However none of the strong features of your hand come into play on the flop. Most notably your nut low draw is immediately counterfeited, and the flop only has one club.

You do have top and bottom pair, but that is not a very good holding when the bottom pair is deuces. And as you write, the spade flush draw is poor.

Therefore you more or less completely missed a good fit this flop - and you are out of position. And this is a flop with which an opponent might easily have a good fit and it will be difficult for you to deduce how an opponent's hand fits with the board.

Checking and then folding if anyone behind you bets seems your best course of action.

Buzz

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

I'm assuming you have no reads on players here. I definitely fold to this flop bet. Surprised none of the three players behind you could continue. This is the kind of play that can easily lead you down a dark alley later in the session if you read into it at all. It's the kind of play when made that should lead you to think you were lucky to get away with it this once, and you won't tempt fate again... at least that's my experience. I get into the most trouble in spots like this, with my own personal demon being fopping two pair with A28b, flopping A2x, A8x, Abx, stuff like that just kills me.

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

Assani - I probably peel here for that price on THAT flop too. your turn bet is a tough bet, but i probably do the same if it's heads-up.

are you taking notes after hands like these?

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

Wow, this one is tough. However, I think you played it optimally, but by a very thin margin (flop fold is absolutely an alternative). I don't think you have to be afraid of neither top set or top two pair, as I figure he would have bet at least the pot in those cases. Neither do you usually have to fear A34 with a flush draw here, as that hand warrants at least a pot bet (although without reads you certainly can't discount the possibility entirely). The two spades in your hand are two cards less for villain to fill up a very possible nut flush draw. The biggest risk you are running by peeling one off is getting squeezed by a checkraising set or a big draw. If the 5 had been a 7 or 8 instead, continuing in this hand would feel much more comfortable, but as it is, I am still slightly leaning towards calling flop and pushing any high non spade turn (if it's headsup).

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

You had 4 options:

1) Bet out.

If you bet out you can get raised and you dont know where you are at because the board is low and people would raise with a low draw plus a pair in this situation.

2) Call the bet.

If you call here you could be check raised because the board is an action board. There are 2 low cards and a flush draw. If you call you are also giving other people a great price for their draws and all you have is top and bottom. The only cards you would feel safe with on the turn would be a Q or 2. You are calling hoping to hit one of your 4 outs.

3) Check raise the bet.

Your hand is too weak to check raise. You could get trapped by a set or a low wrap or he could even have aces with the nut flush.

4) Fold.

This is probably the best option because your hand is too weak for all of the other options. There are also 3 people behind you.

You seem to run good though.

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, this one is tough. However, I think you played it optimally, but by a very thin margin (flop fold is absolutely an alternative). I don't think you have to be afraid of neither top set or top two pair, as I figure he would have bet at least the pot in those cases. Neither do you usually have to fear A34 with a flush draw here, as that hand warrants at least a pot bet (although without reads you certainly can't discount the possibility entirely). The two spades in your hand are two cards less for villain to fill up a very possible nut flush draw. The biggest risk you are running by peeling one off is getting squeezed by a checkraising set or a big draw. If the 5 had been a 7 or 8 instead, continuing in this hand would feel much more comfortable, but as it is, I am still slightly leaning towards calling flop and pushing any high non spade turn (if it's headsup).

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think the issue is with just the bettor. It seems like the bettor is weak based on his bet, but the issue here is that there are 3 people who are yet to act behind him that are likely to have checked a monster hand because the bettor raised to 6.5 times the BB preflop and most players would figure the raiser was thinking of getting it all in on the flop.

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Noone said Push. I like pushing in this spot...

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
:( Noone said Push. I like pushing in this spot...

[/ QUOTE ]

I did. I talked about check raising and betting out. Pushing is wrong here because 4 people are in the pot and if anyone calls you, then you are in bad shape.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959896
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - ah 3h 4d 8d -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 231 655 162 3 0 106 9 0.544
8d 4d Ah 3h 162 162 655 3 580 0 9 0.456

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959898
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - as 3s 7h 8h -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 183 501 311 8 0 82 33 0.430
As 3s 8h 7h 302 311 501 8 556 0 33 0.570

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959899
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - as 3s 4h 8h -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 183 368 447 5 0 106 9 0.340
As 3s 8h 4h 444 447 368 5 580 0 9 0.660

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959902
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - qh qd jd td -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 303 303 517 0 160 0 0 0.413
Qd Jd Td Qh 445 517 303 0 0 0 0 0.587

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959903
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - qh qd 3d 7d -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 148 300 520 0 97 32 0 0.295
Qd 7d 3d Qh 484 520 300 0 407 88 0 0.705

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959905
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - 5h 5d 3d 7d -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 198 380 440 0 97 32 0 0.374
7d 5d 3d 5h 404 440 380 0 407 88 0 0.626

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959908
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - 5h qd 3d 7d -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 248 516 304 0 97 32 0 0.488
Qd 7d 3d 5h 268 304 516 0 407 88 0 0.512

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959911
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - 7h ah 3c 7d -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 228 720 94 6 0 84 30 0.589
3c 7d Ah 7h 92 94 720 6 559 0 30 0.411

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959916
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - as ah 3s 9c -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 169 397 415 8 0 96 48 0.362
As 3s 9c Ah 403 415 397 8 472 0 48 0.638

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959920
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - as ah ts 9c -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 443 443 377 0 160 0 0 0.583
As Ts 9c Ah 307 377 443 0 0 0 0 0.417

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3959924
pokenum -o8 2s qc 9s ac - as ah 3h 9c -- qs 5s 2c
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 5s 2c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
9s 2s Ac Qc 232 637 178 5 0 96 48 0.546
As 9c Ah 3h 178 178 637 5 472 0 48 0.454

I put in most of the range that will call your check raise. I also put in the hand that villan ended up having. He is not ahead of much. I think he needed to get really lucky to not be crushed by someone in the hand.

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Assani - I probably peel here for that price on THAT flop too. your turn bet is a tough bet, but i probably do the same if it's heads-up.

are you taking notes after hands like these?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I briefly stated to you in PM, I'm trying to get better with note-taking. What in particular about this hand would you note? His preflop raise with that hand? His strange bet with the low draw when he was last to act? His call on the turn? And perhaps most importantly how would that impact your play against him in the future?

89,694 and counting

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

Guys keep the thoughts coming. FWIW I did never consider pushing. My options in my head were to call and push a non-scary turn or to fold. I'm curious how people would've played the turn if an 8 fell.

89,693 and counting

Re: $5/10 NL hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Guys keep the thoughts coming. FWIW I did never consider pushing. My options in my head were to call and push a non-scary turn or to fold. I'm curious how people would've played the turn if an 8 fell.

89,693 and counting

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to fold if an 8 falls on the turn. There is no other play because the guy would have shoved and you would be getting freerolled for most of the money.