AK pf and deep against stations
 

£20 (~$40) Crypto (midnight British time)

So, to quote Hellmuth commenting on the ME final table, it's amateur hour.

I find this spot trickier than probably anything else in MTTs. You pick up AK at a table full of stations who like their cards.

Standard is to raise and then bet/shove the flop but, often, everyone calls pf and then with any piece of the flop so is this still the most profitable play?

What's the best line?

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $15/$30
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $3145
UTG+1: $1490
MP1: $2140
MP2: $1355
MP3: $2080
CO: $1165
Button: $1705
Hero: $2145
BB: $1720

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $90</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $90 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $135)</font>, CO calls $90 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $225)</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero?

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

When I don't feel like thinking sometimes I'll just jam which thinking about it (huh?) I kind of like actually because it really can't be that bad given the money that's already in there and you'll be OOP if you re-raise and get called which sucks if you whif.

A go-and-go would work as well I guess. Raise to 600 and jam any flop. I don't think it matters to much what you do.

Even calling and playing it passively preflop does have its merits if opponents play bad post-flop.

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

Eh just noticed your about 70bb's deep. Is that too deep to be pushing AK pre in this spot?

edit: i tend to overplay AK sometimes (i think imo)

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

Pot's 10% of my stack though. I don't think pushing is altogether unreasonable (against stations).

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

i'd raise to 300 and not click the cbet button on a lot of flops..

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd complete and not click the cbet button on a lot of flops..

[/ QUOTE ]

If we hit (with stations) we'll get paid well enough post flop so why bloat it for the 2/3 we miss?

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

I think the fact your with lots of stations solidifies a large raise here. The pot will be inflated, so limping here will leave us less maneuvering room post flop, with a pot this size we won't know we're beat until our chips are in the middle, It will occasionally get shown a set/st/fl/2p to an A/K high flop that we're never getting away from being under repped going in. Although I agree, an under-repped A post flop vs poor post flop players can be +EV. If your putting one of your donk villians 100% on an A, ( you can vs donks) and play it to flop the ace and remove his stack, the math is very similar to playing small pairs meaning approx 24 BB win must be gained when we flop the A, unlike a set however, there are more two pair hands that we are losing to. You have those odds here, so the case can be made, but donk reads must be good and opponent specific, with all these variables (too many to the flop here), it's a much easier hand to play getting a big raise in here.. I like the 600 to go, re-evaluate, prolly shove any flop we don't crush.

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

Jamming here isn't unreasonable. You will get called by a bunch of hands that are losing to you (long run).

Personally, I'd toss in a big raise here. Even larger than normal knowing I'm going to be out of position. Probably to 600 or 700.

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

You guys that are raising, are you shoving air into multiple players on the flop or c/f after putting in 1/3 of your stack?

Edit: and i meant call (obv) in the above FYP

Re: AK pf and deep against stations
 

[ QUOTE ]
You guys that are raising, are you shoving air into multiple players on the flop or c/f after putting in 1/3 of your stack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the flop....if it's multiple players after a raise to 600 the world has ended, however.