KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

I'm wondering who likes this line and who doesn't and if anyone feels strongly about it either way. Villian here seems fairly donkish - tends to misvalue hands. I've seen him turn hands into bluffs when he thinks he's valuebetting. But I havn't been at the table long so I'm not fully confident I know how he plays. On the turn here I don't think he has a flush obv. but it's possible - it's hard to put him on a K - he may have two-pair and he may be betting with second pair or whatever thinking it's good as he may think I'm FOS. On the river I fill up and think he will definitely bet a flush and possibly a lot of other things that he may possibly call with so I think it's more EV to go for the big score than donk into him. Comments welcome, thanks.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $68
CO: $61
Button: $50
SB: $58
BB: $50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($4.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $3</font>, Button calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($10.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $8</font>, Hero calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($26.75, 2 players)
Hero checks

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

You played it pretty bad.

Bet 4 on the flop.

Bet 6 on the turn.

Bet about 19 on the river

He should have a flush almost always here

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

I bet 3 because that's my standard c-bet size and I don't see what huge difference betting 4 would make. Increasing the size of c-bets by silly amounts like 25% just because of board texture is over-rated and it makes basically no difference.

If you are sure he has a flush why bet the turn and get raised?

If you are sure he has a flush why donk into him and not go for the crai?

I don't think your post makes any sense at all. Please explain instead of just saying I played it badly.

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

[ QUOTE ]
I bet 3 because that's my standard c-bet size and I don't see what huge difference betting 4 would make. Increasing the size of c-bets by silly amounts like 25% just because of board texture is over-rated and it makes basically no difference.

If you are sure he has a flush why bet the turn and get raised?

If you are sure he has a flush why donk into him and not go for the crai?

I don't think your post makes any sense at all. Please explain instead of just saying I played it badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

If thats your standard cbet size, you have to increase it.
3 into a 4.75 pot is not enough on this flop.
You give good odds.


Bet the turn you got a monster hand!!!
CRAI on river is ok if you think he'll bet.

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

exactly.

So you flop a set on a HEAVY DRAWY board and you bet 3 into 4.75? Unless you think he's some super aggro guy you NEVER DO THAT. You are just giving him odds and you basically are begging for them to outdraw you.

So, the reason why you bet the turn, but not as much is because you don't want to check and let him know that you are weak. If he raises you too much you can fold, no big deal.

However you CAN check the turn, basically check call it.

But you cannot check the river. You need to value bet it, especially because he has a flush 90% of the time

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

You are still making no sense insyder. Maybe you're right about the c-bet size (I'm not convinced of this at btw and think it larely depends on how c-bets fit with how an individual plays - I think flop c-bet size is more or less psychological since often unless you severely overbet the pot you're giving odds to draw and often unless you severely underbet the pot you're giving horrible odds to draw on dry boards - it's decisions on later streets that count imho) but if we can agree to leave that for another thread that would be good.

You might be acidentally right about betting the turn but you're certainly not right for the reasons you said. I don't want to check and let him know I'm weak? I have top set? Bet-folding this turn with top set would be horrible imo.

'You can check the turn' - Yeah, I noticed.

'You cannot check the river'. Why not? I already said this guy is never checking behind with a flush. People who value-bet second pair don't check behind with flushes. And if he has a flush 90% of the time why bet when we can crai???

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

the thing is, you need to be certain that bets and that he has a flush here.

he would call a vbet from you with TPTK, but he is less inclined to bet it.
i guess he will bet twopair.

if you CRAI and he bets smaller than you would vbet, you lose value, since he wont call your AI.

Re: KK TopSet/TurnPossibleFlush/RiverBoat/Linecheck
 

Well I am certain that he bets a flush, but I'm far less certain he has a flush. Actually I think he's more likely not to have one. But I cannot see us getting lots of value out of much else on this board. It's hard to put him on top pair because that would be the case K. He might have a T and may call a small river bet with it. If he has T7 he's just made a full house and is stacking off no matter what I do.

So going for the crai might lose small value from a T, would lose value to an unlikely TP probably. If he has KT (unlikely again), he may bet the river anyway. He'll almost certainly bet a random 7. I can see what you're saying about his range for calling the all-in. However if I was value-betting this river it would have to be small since I can't put him on a big hand other than a flush and if he has a flush a crai would get insta-called.