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-   -   Lloyd Carr Retiring (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=544431)

DVaut1 11-12-2007 04:13 PM

Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Only vicious internet rumors so far:

http://www.mgoblog.com/

"Three separate sources indicate that Carr has made his decision to retire official and people around the athletic department are being told. The formal announcement will come after the Ohio State game, possibly at the Monday press conference, possibly a day or two later."

Brian probably wouldn't post this unless he's 99% sure.

DVaut1 11-12-2007 04:14 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[img]http://media.2theadvocate.com/images/180*197/les+miles_081606.jpg[/img]

C'mon buddy, you know you want to come here!

The Owl 11-12-2007 04:15 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Hasn't his departure been a certainty since week 2 of Michigan's season?

iron81 11-12-2007 04:17 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hasn't his departure been a certainty since week 2 of Michigan's season?

[/ QUOTE ]
His job would have been safe for the next two years if Mich wins Saturday.

DVaut1 11-12-2007 04:18 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hasn't his departure been a certainty since week 2 of Michigan's season?

[/ QUOTE ]

It was speculated it was anywhere from 50/50 to 75% to 90% certain, depending on who you read/listened to.

If the names "Mike DeBord" or "Kirk Ferentz" are mentioned at all in the coaching search, then I'm getting my torch lit and will be prepared to storm whoever put their name into consideration, be it Bill Martin, Mary Sue Coleman or Bo's ghost.

The Bus Driver 11-12-2007 04:27 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hasn't his departure been a certainty since he started a losing streak against tOSU?

[/ QUOTE ]

DVaut1 11-12-2007 04:29 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hasn't his departure been a certainty since he started a losing streak against tOSU?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as it pains me to say it, the powers at U of M would never have fired Lloyd. It's tempting to say App State or poor-performance against OSU would have cost him his job at the end of this year even if he wasn't retiring, but that's almost certainly not the case. He would have been the coach as long as he wanted the job.

I shouldn't say it "pains me to say it". Like most Michigan fans, I have a love-hate relationship with Lloyd. Yes, he's hopelessly lost as a coach, hires terrible assistants, and has the program's offensive schemes and play calling mired in the 1950s. But he still recruits reasonably well. And 1997 still counts for something. And he's a nice old guy (to everyone except sideline reporters) and does charity work or something.

I have a hard time hating him, but I also won't defend his coaching acumen, either.

I know Miles is often dumb and tries to call timeouts when the ball changes possession and makes alot of questionable/batshit decisions, but he has a track record of hiring competent assistants. And he loves U of M and apparently really wants the job. So he's my horse unless some unlikely dream candidate hints they want the job.

kkcountry 11-12-2007 04:32 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
He would have been the coach as long as he wanted the job.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, and anybody who says otherwise has no clue about how uofm's athletic department is ran

The Bus Driver 11-12-2007 04:36 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hasn't his departure been a certainty since he started a losing streak against tOSU?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as it pains me to say it, the powers at U of M would never have fired Lloyd. It's tempting to say App State or poor-performance against OSU would have cost him his job at the end of this year even if he wasn't retiring, but that's almost certainly not the case. He would have been the coach as long as he wanted the job.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's true, but losing to tOSU like he has been, coupled with the huge disappointment of this season adds up. It's got to be a major contribution to how much he enjoys his job. At some point, he's going to be convinced to retire.

NozeCandy 11-12-2007 04:41 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
There were tons of rumors about this being his last season before it even began. I really hope we can pull out these last two games so he can finish with a winning record against OSU and go out on a high note. He's a great person who represents the program and recruits very well, just hopelessly outdated with his coaching practices. This is a good thing for all involved.

johnnylovescandy 11-12-2007 04:52 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
I'd like to see Michigan hire Lou Holtz as next head football coach.

luckybacon 11-12-2007 05:00 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
I hope the hire Les Miles so bad, one because I dont like Michigan and Les Miles is such an overrated coach [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

pvn 11-12-2007 05:13 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[img]http://media.2theadvocate.com/images/180*197/les+miles_081606.jpg[/img]

C'mon buddy, you know you want to come here!

[/ QUOTE ]

While I'm sure tOSU fans are drooling at the thought of this, SEC fans everywhere are crying on the inside. LSU boosters, PLEASE delay your next double-wide purchase and contribute to giving Les a Scrooge-McSaban-sized bag of money to convince him to stay!!!

DVaut1 11-12-2007 05:19 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
While I'm sure tOSU fans are drooling at the thought of this

[/ QUOTE ]

Miles can't be any worse than Lloyd, so I suspect OSU fans are indifferent. If the "Miles is a total luckbox donk" narrative is true, that still makes him the equivalent of Lloyd, who (I think) everyone agrees isn't a great coach.

NozeCandy 11-12-2007 05:19 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Say what you want about Les Miles, but nobody else in the Big 10 should be happy about Michigan having an incredibly aggressive, modern coach. Sure he makes some blunders, but he does not error on the side of passivity like Lloyd does, which is very preferable.

Gregatron 11-12-2007 05:20 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]

I know Miles is often dumb and tries to call timeouts when the ball changes possession and makes alot of questionable/batshit decisions, but he has a track record of hiring competent assistants.

[/ QUOTE ]
You guys just don't understand Miles. He has done something no other coach has ever done: he has taken the concept of being *clutch*, and applied it to coaching.

Bow down bitches!

http://images.dawgsports.com/images/...ke_a_dufus.jpg

Terrabon98 11-12-2007 05:33 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Say what you want about Les Miles, but nobody else in the Big 10 should be happy about Michigan having an incredibly aggressive, modern coach. Sure he makes some blunders, but he does not error on the side of passivity like Lloyd does, which is very preferable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I am pretty sure OSU and everyone else in the Big Ten would be pretty unhappy if Miles came. Regardless of what you think of Miles, he is clearly not an awful coach, and Lloyd has been pretty bad. Michigan has gotten by on superior talent for the most part.

Also, thanks DVaut for stealing my thunder! I am at work, saw this on mgoblog, freaked out, told all my roomies, and then came here to post, only to find there were already a dozen responses! I am never the first to know...

However, also heard a lot of rumors that Miles is on bad terms with UM AD and football team due to things he said regarding Lloyd's failing health to potential recruits, etc. which Michigan viewed as a breach of trust and a slap in the face for a program that has done a lot for Miles. Problem is, outside of Miles, I cannot think of any good candidates. Please no Mike DeBord


One of the reasons I have never minded Carr TOO MUCH is that you always knew what you were getting with him. Not a great, dynamic coach, but someone who kept the program on steady ground, always had good (but not great) seasons, and had unflinching loyalty to the program. You never needed to worry about him tanking the football team or bolting a la Saban for another school. Miles may be more erratic, but at least he has that loyalty

I think Michigan history will look very favorably upon Carr's tenure.

DVaut1 11-12-2007 05:44 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
However, also heard a lot of rumors that Miles is on bad terms with UM AD and football team due to things he said regarding Lloyd's failing health to potential recruits, etc. which Michigan viewed as a breach of trust and a slap in the face for a program that has done a lot for Miles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bo always liked him, but it's a not-closely-guarded-secret that the current powers in the Michigan football program have little love for Les (alliteration ftw).

[ QUOTE ]
Problem is, outside of Miles, I cannot think of any good candidates. Please no Mike DeBord

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Outside of unlikely dream candidates who have literally no chance of coming, Miles is at the top of the list IMO. And yeah, he wants the job and would probably not use it as a stepping stone to other jobs.

I consider Schiano and Brian Kelly second-tier candidates. Now, if they make a play for Tedford or something, I obviously won't be upset -- but I consider that unlikely. I think Miles is the best available option among the candidates oft-mentioned for the job; so even if he is a luckbox donk moron, that's pretty equivalent to Carr, who's hopelessly devoted to Cold-War era football and terrible coordinators and their terrible schemes like DeBord. Given Miles loves Michigan and really wants the job, that puts him above the frequently named-contenders.

As I said, if some unlikely dream candidate expresses interest in the job -- or if Bill Martin wants to drive the Michigan Money Truck up to Dream Candidate X's lawn and asks them to hop on board, then I reserve the right to change my mind.

But if the potential candidates are the DeBords, Ferentzs, Kellys, Schianos, and Ron Englishs of the world, then give me Miles.

ADLinden 11-12-2007 05:53 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
As an OSU fan I do not want this to happen because they might find a coach who can beat Tressel. I like it how it is now...

BigSoonerFan 11-12-2007 06:49 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hope the hire Les Miles so bad, one because I dont like Michigan and Les Miles is such an overrated coach [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he doesn't have to be that good. It is the Big Ten! :-)

TalkingDonkey 11-12-2007 07:01 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Does anybody know what Carr's retirement will do with recruits committed to UM for next year? As much as I'm excited about a coaching change, I don't want to see Sam McGuffie decommit in favor of A&M.

TomCollins 11-12-2007 07:09 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While I'm sure tOSU fans are drooling at the thought of this

[/ QUOTE ]

Miles can't be any worse than Lloyd, so I suspect OSU fans are indifferent. If the "Miles is a total luckbox donk" narrative is true, that still makes him the equivalent of Lloyd, who (I think) everyone agrees isn't a great coach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Les Miles makes Lloyd Carr look like Knute Rockne.

Gregatron 11-12-2007 07:13 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While I'm sure tOSU fans are drooling at the thought of this

[/ QUOTE ]

Miles can't be any worse than Lloyd, so I suspect OSU fans are indifferent. If the "Miles is a total luckbox donk" narrative is true, that still makes him the equivalent of Lloyd, who (I think) everyone agrees isn't a great coach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Les Miles makes Lloyd Carr look like Knute Rockne.

[/ QUOTE ]
El-oh-el

http://www.collegefootballnow.com/fi...orade-bath.jpg

JackWhite 11-12-2007 07:15 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
I just read this at MGOBLOG, too. Let's hope it is true. I don't know if I could take another year of Carr/DeBord. Now the important question of the replacement. My preference would be any coach who not only didn't play or coach for Bo, but never even met the guy. I am one of the small minority of Michigan people who doesn't worship at the altar of Bo.

Whoever it is, I hope they totally clean house. First on that list: get rid of the piece of [censored] strength coach Mike Gittleson. I have been hearing from people in the know for years about Gittleson. Glad Brian at MGOBLOG mentioned him today in his list of gripes. Second on the list, deport Mike DeBord. Not only shouldn't he be retained at offensive coordinator, he shouldn't be allowed to live in the state.

Hopefully my dreams come true and we hire a coach who will call a post pass. The first time I see UM throw a pass in the middle of the field will be the happiest day of my life. What other teams take forgranted, is only a dream for a UM fan.

JackWhite 11-12-2007 07:21 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know what Carr's retirement will do with recruits committed to UM for next year? As much as I'm excited about a coaching change, I don't want to see Sam McGuffie decommit in favor of A&M.



[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt that we will suffer a string of decommits. McGuffie has family ties to Michigan from his father. I know his mother wants him to stay home, though. In UM's case, I believe most recruits are drawn to the program, rather than to Carr. I don't think his leaving will be a deal breaker with our commitments.

Zimmer4141 11-12-2007 08:01 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
I think Les Miles is the most realistic candidate.

Guy that I would love to see as the next Michigan head coach: Bill Cowher.

TalkingDonkey 11-12-2007 08:08 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Les Miles makes Lloyd Carr look like Knute Rockne.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is ridiculous

damaniac 11-12-2007 08:25 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Interesting stats-thing

Don't know if this is meaningful but it is an interesting look (I thought) at Carr vs. other coaches against different types of teams (by ranking). Infer whatever you will from it.

BTW, if Michigan wins Carr will be 3rd all-time in Big Ten win % (10 season minimum; this keeps Tressel out, though he'll be way up there in 3 years) behind Bo and Yost. Woody is 3rd/4th, Crisler is 5th.

bonds 11-12-2007 09:06 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anybody know what Carr's retirement will do with recruits committed to UM for next year? As much as I'm excited about a coaching change, I don't want to see Sam McGuffie decommit in favor of A&M.



[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt that we will suffer a string of decommits. McGuffie has family ties to Michigan from his father. I know his mother wants him to stay home, though. In UM's case, I believe most recruits are drawn to the program, rather than to Carr. I don't think his leaving will be a deal breaker with our commitments.

[/ QUOTE ]

It'll be interesting to see if Carr stays on in some capacity - assistant AD or something. If so, that'll help in maintaining the recruiting class.

There will probably be decommits. It happens. But a new coach might also pick some up, so if the change happens quickly and smoothly, I'm optimistic.

THEOSU 11-12-2007 09:22 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
as a buckeyes fan, i would be a lot happier with michigan hiring les miles than i would be with michigan hiring jeff tedford or jon gruden.

is miles better than carr? sure, but that's not really the debate here.

jgunnip 11-12-2007 09:25 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
This is 100% happening. The Athletic Department doesn't want to officially announce it until Friday but they may be forced to address it before that as more information leaks. I have a source who said the decision was made this morning and they want you sort of dedicate this game for Carr.

mblax10 11-12-2007 09:44 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting stats-thing

Don't know if this is meaningful but it is an interesting look (I thought) at Carr vs. other coaches against different types of teams (by ranking). Infer whatever you will from it.

BTW, if Michigan wins Carr will be 3rd all-time in Big Ten win % (10 season minimum; this keeps Tressel out, though he'll be way up there in 3 years) behind Bo and Yost. Woody is 3rd/4th, Crisler is 5th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some interesting stats on that page for Spurrier (stats are for when he was at Florida using the final AP top 25 polls):
-83-1 vs. unranked teams (Anybody know who the lose was to?)
-44% of his games were against top 25 teams
-23% of games were against top 10 teams

Terrabon98 11-12-2007 10:05 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
So if Miles comes in, does he get rid of DeBord and English right off the bat?

Fonkey123 11-12-2007 10:15 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Spurrier for god.

DVaut1 11-12-2007 10:15 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
So if Miles comes in, does he get rid of DeBord and English right off the bat?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no real problems with English, although some of the defense's performances this year were inexcusable. As for DeBord, I wish he got fired yesterday.

Unless keeping Lloyd's staff is conditional with taking the job -- something a coach like Miles would never agree to -- then it should be expected Lloyd's staff is gone with him.

IIRC, last year, all of the football coaching staff had their contracts re-written so that if Lloyd retired, they get some buyout money. In fact, I think that the leaked news of their contract tweaking is what started all the internet rumor-mongering that Lloyd might be considering retirment, hence why this move isn't all that surprising.

BigCummins 11-12-2007 10:35 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I know Miles is often dumb and tries to call timeouts when the ball changes possession and makes alot of questionable/batshit decisions, but he has a track record of hiring competent assistants.

[/ QUOTE ]
You guys just don't understand Miles. He has done something no other coach has ever done: he has taken the concept of being *clutch*, and applied it to coaching.

Bow down bitches!

http://images.dawgsports.com/images/...ke_a_dufus.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

Les miles is the George W of football.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3...ture120hg2.jpg

JackWhite 11-12-2007 10:48 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have no real problems with English, although some of the defense's performances this year were inexcusable. As for DeBord, I wish he got fired yesterday.

Unless keeping Lloyd's staff is conditional with taking the job -- something a coach like Miles would never agree to -- then it should be expected Lloyd's staff is gone with him.

IIRC, last year, all of the football coaching staff had their contracts re-written so that if Lloyd retired, they get some buyout money. In fact, I think that the leaked news of their contract tweaking is what started all the internet rumor-mongering that Lloyd might be considering retirment, hence why this move isn't all that surprising.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm generally on the same page. If English stayed, I could live with it. I am still not sure if English is a good D coordinator, but I'm willing to give him a few more years. We definitely need a special teams coach. Our special teams were subpar. Mesko's good, but our punt and kickoff returns were terrible. Breaston's absense is not an excuse. How many times did our KO returner get hit at the 12 yard line by 3 opponents? We never blocked anybody.

ClarkNasty 11-12-2007 11:18 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Shocking news. Shocking.

pvn 11-12-2007 11:20 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Les Miles makes Lloyd Carr look like Knute Rockne.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is ridiculous

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never heard of an understatement?

Victor 11-12-2007 11:26 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
" hiring jeff tedford or jon gruden hiring jeff tedford or jon gruden"

gruden would destroy college football.


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