Two Plus Two Newer Archives

Two Plus Two Newer Archives (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/index.php)
-   Sporting Events (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48)
-   -   Lloyd Carr Retiring (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=544431)

damaniac 11-29-2007 12:36 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Here is a thoughtful take on Les Miles as a coach. I think it does a very good job of looking at things rationally, instead of the fairly arrogant look we tend to take. Typically I see things like, "This one time I saw a coach use his timeouts poorly, so he's clearly a bad or at least mediocre coach overall," as if perfect time management is the main criteria on which we should evaluate coaches. Or the "OMG he has like a billion 5 star recruits, an idiot could go 10-2 there, so he's clearly underachieveing", even though the instances where 10-2 is a failure based on talent are very very small, the incredible demands of fans notwithstanding.

Anyway, worth reading, but I think Les is a very strong hire, though I think Tedford is still better.

heater 11-29-2007 01:44 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a thoughtful take on Les Miles as a coach. I think it does a very good job of looking at things rationally, instead of the fairly arrogant look we tend to take. Typically I see things like, "This one time I saw a coach use his timeouts poorly, so he's clearly a bad or at least mediocre coach overall," as if perfect time management is the main criteria on which we should evaluate coaches. Or the "OMG he has like a billion 5 star recruits, an idiot could go 10-2 there, so he's clearly underachieveing", even though the instances where 10-2 is a failure based on talent are very very small, the incredible demands of fans notwithstanding.

Anyway, worth reading, but I think Les is a very strong hire, though I think Tedford is still better.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting link.

I watched "The Rivalry" yesterday and it got me pretty fired up. I started thinking about tradition and how important it is to the success of the program. Les is a Michigan man and he already "gets it", obviously. I hope he's our next coach.

ikestoys 11-29-2007 01:47 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
With the talk about recruits and asst coaches...


Aren't all the asst coaches guaranteed spots next year because of the changes Lloyd made to his contracts? Also, Miles is a Michigan man, so I'd be surprised if he didn't know/work with at some point pretty much all the staff.

ikestoys 11-29-2007 01:49 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Another comment...

the idea of a "michigan man" is a very important one in the AD, in every sport, since Bo. They really, really want a "michigan man"

NozeCandy 11-29-2007 02:16 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
I started thinking about tradition and how important it is to the success of the program. Les is a Michigan man and he already "gets it", obviously. I hope he's our next coach.

[/ QUOTE ]
This sounds scarily like ND when they hired Weis, but at least Miles has extensive college coaching experience.

[ QUOTE ]
Aren't all the asst coaches guaranteed spots next year because of the changes Lloyd made to his contracts?

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe they get paid next year regardless of their place on the actual staff. If this is true, who stays or goes next year could be hugely dependent on how much UM wants to pay. Considering how money they athletic department makes, they better be willing to pay.

damaniac 11-29-2007 02:18 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
With the talk about recruits and asst coaches...


Aren't all the asst coaches guaranteed spots next year because of the changes Lloyd made to his contracts? Also, Miles is a Michigan man, so I'd be surprised if he didn't know/work with at some point pretty much all the staff.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, they are guaranteed pay for one year if they are not retained. No one would right a contract actually mandating that the new coach keep every single assistant (wouldn't matter anyway; if you fired them and they sued they'd just get damages essentially amounting to a year's pay anyway, same difference). As far as his connections go, he left Michigan after the 94 season (he left shortly before Mo got canned, else he might have been made OC under Carr). Not sure who is still on the staff from them, but probably not many people.

Not sure who he'd keep, but Miles has a good track record of hiring good assistants/coordinators. If he keeps Loeffler (as an OC) and English as DC I'll trust his judgment for the time being. Loeffler is the QB coach but gets a fair amount of hype from insiders. I lack the knowledge so I'll defer to Miles. English has been reasonably impressive (sans first two games this year) considering we have no real linebackers to speak of, other than the variance-roller coaster Crable. He's also a very good recruiter. Again, given Miles' record, I'd trust his judgment, as this isn't something I really know enough to comment on in any serious way (and realistically no one else does either, at least not to the point of being able to say such a decision would be clearly wrong; unless it involved DeBord).

damaniac 11-29-2007 02:22 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
Another comment...

the idea of a "michigan man" is a very important one in the AD, in every sport, since Bo. They really, really want a "michigan man"

[/ QUOTE ]

Odd thing, that. Bo wasn't a Michigan Man, at least not when he arrived (you can safely say he became one, but then we're talking about some vague set of characteristics and not having been officially associated with Michigan). Crisler didn't. Yost didn't.

Personally I don't think it matters much. The thing is, there's a ton of tradition and history here, but it's not like only a "Michigan Man" is going to play on that. Given that its a useful tool in recruiting and playing to the media and (especially) playing to fans and alums, only an idiot would not learn it and use it to his advantage. The fact that Tedford, say, didn't go to UM doesn't mean he would be less able to talk about the greatness of Fielding H. Yost and Bob Ufer in front of blue-haired alums with deep pockets than Les Miles could.

Granted, I can't say whether the AD agrees with me.

JackWhite 11-29-2007 03:14 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
On the question of who, if anyone, to keep on the current staff, a big issue that not many talk about is our strength and conditioning program. Not my area of expertise, but I've heard from those in the know. It is almost universally agreed that Gittleson's methods are way behind everyone else, and we need a significant change. I've seen Ryan Mundy's quotes on the subject. He said West Virginia's S&C program is vastly superior to UM's.

NozeCandy 11-29-2007 09:47 AM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
Gittleson is way gone. Him and DeBord should be by far the easiest people to can.

DVaut1 11-29-2007 12:17 PM

Re: Lloyd Carr Retiring
 
[ QUOTE ]
On the question of who, if anyone, to keep on the current staff, a big issue that not many talk about is our strength and conditioning program. Not my area of expertise, but I've heard from those in the know. It is almost universally agreed that Gittleson's methods are way behind everyone else, and we need a significant change. I've seen Ryan Mundy's quotes on the subject. He said West Virginia's S&C program is vastly superior to UM's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, Mundy pretty much said WVU S&C >>>> UM S&C

Gittleson runs the HIT (high intensity training) method of S&C, which (to my knowledge) only one other program in the country runs: Penn St.

If I had to think of two programs that epitomize "slow Big Ten teams that seem to recruit amazing athletes and speedsters and slow them down", it's Michigan and Penn State. HIT is widely considered an inferior S&C program for football -- it's jokingly referred to as "s-HIT" by many. The reason why players appear to look slower as they're groomed in the Michigan program might be some kind of Jedi mind trick, but I believe the effect is real, and I have to think at least some of the blame lays on Gittleson and his awful S&C program. Hopefully he's already looking for a new job with DeBord and Andy Moeller (OLine coach).

I agree that I have no program if English stays.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.