Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

These sites have way too much control over what they can and cannot do with our funds. There is no accountability and their decisions are always final. There should be 3rd party company who handles situations like this, or at least a company based somewhere where we as players have rights. Back when I lost over 40K on Full Tilt they told me that my comp was compromised and that someone did access my account and dump all the funds but there was nothing they could do. Their word is always law and it really frustrates me, I've had money frozen on Ongame as well without even getting an email about it. My situation with Ongame worked out but it was very frustrating. I hope everything turns out ok for you.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Given their existing revenues it is strongly in FT's best interests not to confiscate funds without extremely good reason. I am confident they will do the right thing here.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
These sites have way too much control over what they can and cannot do with our funds. There is no accountability and their decisions are always final. There should be 3rd party company who handles situations like this, or at least a company based somewhere where we as players have rights. Back when I lost over 40K on Full Tilt they told me that my comp was compromised and that someone did access my account and dump all the funds but there was nothing they could do. Their word is always law and it really frustrates me, I've had money frozen on Ongame as well without even getting an email about it. My situation with Ongame worked out but it was very frustrating. I hope everything turns out ok for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Sites shouldn't control what you do with your own money and I don't think most sites do. They haven't confiscated the funds yet, the funds are most likely just sitting in the account awaiting a resolution one way or another.

One recommendation I can make to OP to expedite the investigation is to speak with your lawyer and perhaps issue an official legal letter stating that immediate action needs to be taken by Full Tilt Poker to reopen the account. If it is one thing that I have learned from many years as a CS manager, it is that poker sites do not enjoy receiving threats of legal action against the sites. It should give more than enough incentive for Full Tilt to finish off the case, or at the least to give better communication as to what is going on with the account. I would recommend this to all players if you feel you are being treated unfairly and poorly by any site's policies when they are holding your account under suspension and you have no idea why.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These sites have way too much control over what they can and cannot do with our funds. There is no accountability and their decisions are always final. There should be 3rd party company who handles situations like this, or at least a company based somewhere where we as players have rights. Back when I lost over 40K on Full Tilt they told me that my comp was compromised and that someone did access my account and dump all the funds but there was nothing they could do. Their word is always law and it really frustrates me, I've had money frozen on Ongame as well without even getting an email about it. My situation with Ongame worked out but it was very frustrating. I hope everything turns out ok for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Sites shouldn't control what you do with your own money and I don't think most sites do. They haven't confiscated the funds yet, the funds are most likely just sitting in the account awaiting a resolution one way or another.

One recommendation I can make to OP to expedite the investigation is to speak with your lawyer and perhaps issue an official legal letter stating that immediate action needs to be taken by Full Tilt Poker to reopen the account. If it is one thing that I have learned from many years as a CS manager, it is that poker sites do not enjoy receiving threats of legal action against the sites. It should give more than enough incentive for Full Tilt to finish off the case, or at the least to give better communication as to what is going on with the account. I would recommend this to all players if you feel you are being treated unfairly and poorly by any site's policies when they are holding your account under suspension and you have no idea why.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your post as well as those who have posted in hopes of helping me find a solution. I believe it is time to make a change in the way Poker sites have dealt with situations similar to this one. Don't get me wrong, I understand the sites have a responsibility to the players, and that protection of all players should be paramount. The way it's being done now, is just wrong.

Perhaps, we as a community can find a way to make communication a two way street. Maybe an outside unbiased auditiong company. Maybe a phone line where we could actually talk to a live person, as bouglas suggessted. This would help assuage the stress level of a person who is in this position. I'm throwing it out to you all.

Clearly , there have been situations where a site has frozen an account. This person was left in the dark from days to up to 6 weeks. Only to have their account reinstated with no explanation and then expected to resume playing as if nothing ever happened.

If it were that easy to get my lawyer to write a letter, I would do it in a heartbeat. As the sites are not on American soil, American lawyers have no jurisdiciton. I'm a poker player, not a law student so if I'm off base here,let me know.

It is my understanding that I have 2 options. Either I sit and wait till the site contacts me, or I contact the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. I know nothing about the latter. For all I know , they are controlled by the sites, in which case, I'm back to square one.

Has anyone , for whatever reason, contacted the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. If so, why and what was the outcome.

I am not big on regulation, but I do believe that from the tone of these posts that we all are ready for some kind of structure. Situations like mine are only going to increase.

While I'm not a big fan of our current administration, I know that if this situation happened on US soil, I would not be treated like I live in a 3rd world country.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
I too would be curious how you know that this player is on 2 accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty obvious he lost to 2 people this week, they must be the same account.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
These sites have way too much control over what they can and cannot do with our funds. There is no accountability and their decisions are always final. There should be 3rd party company who handles situations like this, or at least a company based somewhere where we as players have rights. Back when I lost over 40K on Full Tilt they told me that my comp was compromised and that someone did access my account and dump all the funds but there was nothing they could do. Their word is always law and it really frustrates me, I've had money frozen on Ongame as well without even getting an email about it. My situation with Ongame worked out but it was very frustrating. I hope everything turns out ok for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Sites shouldn't control what you do with your own money and I don't think most sites do. They haven't confiscated the funds yet, the funds are most likely just sitting in the account awaiting a resolution one way or another.

One recommendation I can make to OP to expedite the investigation is to speak with your lawyer and perhaps issue an official legal letter stating that immediate action needs to be taken by Full Tilt Poker to reopen the account. If it is one thing that I have learned from many years as a CS manager, it is that poker sites do not enjoy receiving threats of legal action against the sites. It should give more than enough incentive for Full Tilt to finish off the case, or at the least to give better communication as to what is going on with the account. I would recommend this to all players if you feel you are being treated unfairly and poorly by any site's policies when they are holding your account under suspension and you have no idea why.

[/ QUOTE ]

I appreciate your post as well as those who have posted in hopes of helping me find a solution. I believe it is time to make a change in the way Poker sites have dealt with situations similar to this one. Don't get me wrong, I understand the sites have a responsibility to the players, and that protection of all players should be paramount. The way it's being done now, is just wrong.

Perhaps, we as a community can find a way to make communication a two way street. Maybe an outside unbiased auditiong company. Maybe a phone line where we could actually talk to a live person, as bouglas suggessted. This would help assuage the stress level of a person who is in this position. I'm throwing it out to you all.

Clearly , there have been situations where a site has frozen an account. This person was left in the dark from days to up to 6 weeks. Only to have their account reinstated with no explanation and then expected to resume playing as if nothing ever happened.

If it were that easy to get my lawyer to write a letter, I would do it in a heartbeat. As the sites are not on American soil, American lawyers have no jurisdiciton. I'm a poker player, not a law student so if I'm off base here,let me know.

It is my understanding that I have 2 options. Either I sit and wait till the site contacts me, or I contact the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. I know nothing about the latter. For all I know , they are controlled by the sites, in which case, I'm back to square one.

Has anyone , for whatever reason, contacted the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. If so, why and what was the outcome.

I am not big on regulation, but I do believe that from the tone of these posts that we all are ready for some kind of structure. Situations like mine are only going to increase.

While I'm not a big fan of our current administration, I know that if this situation happened on US soil, I would not be treated like I live in a 3rd world country.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you should just quit playing on a site with substandard customer service.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Well, a few comments about jurisdiction. An internet web site which is accessible in a certain forum can be subject to personal jurisdiction in the forum even when the web site has no physical presence in the forum or even in the US. This gets a little complicated, but to make a long story short, a web site doing business with residents of a particular forum entering into contracts with the repeated transmission of computer files over the internet will likely to be found by a court in that forum to be subject to personal jurisdiction of the court. It is likely that a court in your state would hold that it had personal jurisdiction over FTP based on your situation. So a letter from an attorney may have some significant affect. A suit over defrauding a player over a substantial sum could have severe adverse consequences, including bad publicity and the threat of US government crackdown. This is the last thing they want.

That being said, your lawyer may advise you not to take such action for other reasons. If FTP does not resolve this, you may want to talk to an attorney.

This is not legal advice, although I can point you to cases on personal jurisidction conferred by web sites if you want more info.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, a few comments about jurisdiction. An internet web site which is accessible in a certain forum can be subject to personal jurisdiction in the forum even when the web site has no physical presence in the forum or even in the US. This gets a little complicated, but to make a long story short, a web site doing business with residents of a particular forum entering into contracts with the repeated transmission of computer files over the internet will likely to be found by a court in that forum to be subject to personal jurisdiction of the court. It is likely that a court in your state would hold that it had personal jurisdiction over FTP based on your situation. So a letter from an attorney may have some significant affect. A suit over defrauding a player over a substantial sum could have severe adverse consequences, including bad publicity and the threat of US government crackdown. This is the last thing they want.

That being said, your lawyer may advise you not to take such action for other reasons. If FTP does not resolve this, you may want to talk to an attorney.

This is not legal advice, although I can point you to cases on personal jurisidction conferred by web sites if you want more info.

[/ QUOTE ]

Johny Poker.... Thanks so much for that info. If this does not get resolved shortly, if you don't mind, I will be contacting you. Thanks for your post.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

We are only hearing a one-sided argument here and don't really know what is being investigated. If this involves a complex chain of events then 2/3 weeks to investigate is not unreasonable.

sillysal, I don't know you but others here obviously do. It sounds, from what you are saying, that you are innocent of any wrongdoing. If that is the case then I hope this gets resolved for you as soon as possible. That said, the sites need to ensure the honesty of their games (would anyone be objecting to Absolute having blocked accounts in their recent scandal?).

The real issue for me is the customer service and this is where Stars excel. The sites can't give out too much information as to what is being investigated for obvious reasons. But keeping you updated on realistic timescales would go some way to allieviating people's concerns.

IMHO firing off solicitors letters at this early stage would achieve nothing except costing you money. They will still complete their investigation.

Surely nobody here is suggesting that FTP is trying to rip sillysal off. She has been an excellent customer to them over a number of years. They would hate to see her go - even so, something is amiss and they want to get to the bottom of it and personally I am ok with that.

sillysal, I sincerely hope they sort this out for you as soon as possible but the timescales at the moment are not unrealistic considering the complexities that may be involved. FTP's lack of information as to how long this is going to take is not right however.

I can understand that FTP do not want to publish phone numbers because they would be innundated with all sorts of minor issues. However, for something serious like this I cannot see why they cannot telephone the player and speak direct, keeping their number confidential.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, a few comments about jurisdiction. An internet web site which is accessible in a certain forum can be subject to personal jurisdiction in the forum even when the web site has no physical presence in the forum or even in the US. This gets a little complicated, but to make a long story short, a web site doing business with residents of a particular forum entering into contracts with the repeated transmission of computer files over the internet will likely to be found by a court in that forum to be subject to personal jurisdiction of the court. It is likely that a court in your state would hold that it had personal jurisdiction over FTP based on your situation. So a letter from an attorney may have some significant affect. A suit over defrauding a player over a substantial sum could have severe adverse consequences, including bad publicity and the threat of US government crackdown. This is the last thing they want.

That being said, your lawyer may advise you not to take such action for other reasons. If FTP does not resolve this, you may want to talk to an attorney.

This is not legal advice, although I can point you to cases on personal jurisidction conferred by web sites if you want more info.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. But one thing I would point out is that in a few states online poker is probably illegal, unlike the majority of states where it is probably legal with the DOJ claiming it is illegal. If you are in a "probably illegal" state, that could impact you as well.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

No problem, you can pm me, let us know if they resolve.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this involves a complex chain of events then 2/3 weeks to investigate is not unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]


In certain situations I can see how 2-3 wks is necessary.

But in those situations they should be able to tell you that ahead of time instead of saying "94 hours" or whatever they said and then apologizing for the delay and please be patient, etc.
Refusing to answer any e-mails on it for 4+ days at a time is inexcuseable. I really don't care if they are under-staffed or over-worked or what. For a customer keeping $47k on there they should be able to have somebody give SOME kind of an answer within an hour for EVERY single e-mail.

Of course it would be better still if they had a phone #. But I'm being practical here and it seems they just don't want to do that.
And I think responding to e-mails within an hour is realistic. Responding 4+ days later with a casual "oh...don't worry about it. just be patient. all your $47k are belongs to us anyway" is really really awful.

They seem to have very little awareness that this is cause for a major freak-out on the part of their customer...and somehow don't seem to realize that their customers need to actually have faith and trust in their site in order to be able to play and deposit there and that their lazyness to simply respond to their customer basically accomplishes the opposite effect.

My hunch is that if they had simply told their customer a LITTLE BIT of what was going on without giving away the entire investigation and also kept her updated and communicated with her she would be far less stressed about this and might not have even felt it necessary to come to the forum with this problem.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i had decided the last time i saw one of these threads, never to play on full tilt again. This one confirms that decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you prefer the situation at ft, or places like ub and ap where bots can run freely?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am pretty confident in my ability to game select, bot or no bot. The security of my funds is something that I can only control by choosing to put it somewhere safe. Any site that freezes large amounts of money with little or no explanation will not get my business.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

This is really bad. Keep telling us the events that becomes.

I want to start playing on ftp but now I dont really fell confident.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, we as a community can find a way to make communication a two way street. Maybe an outside unbiased auditiong company. Maybe a phone line where we could actually talk to a live person, as bouglas suggessted. This would help assuage the stress level of a person who is in this position. I'm throwing it out to you all.

[/ QUOTE ]

No site will ever hire a 3rd party auditing company to come in and perform investigations. This would mean that outsiders would have access and privy to very confidential information and more importantly financial information. Remember, poker sites are not regulated under the same bodies that govern other financial institutions.

There are truly some great suggestions here. A phone line for VIP, high stakes players is definitely one of them. If this were not possible, even a special email address to which inquiries are immediately escalated and dealt with would be a good idea. The bottom line is that someone with VIP status needs to have much better treatment than what OP is receiving right now. I will say it again. The customer service that OP is receiving is completely unacceptable.

[ QUOTE ]
If it were that easy to get my lawyer to write a letter, I would do it in a heartbeat. As the sites are not on American soil, American lawyers have no jurisdiciton. I'm a poker player, not a law student so if I'm off base here,let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically what Johny Poker said above. You also have nothing to lose, except perhaps some legal fees.

[ QUOTE ]
It is my understanding that I have 2 options. Either I sit and wait till the site contacts me, or I contact the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. I know nothing about the latter. For all I know , they are controlled by the sites, in which case, I'm back to square one.

Has anyone , for whatever reason, contacted the Kahnawake Gaming Commission. If so, why and what was the outcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

KGC is a body that supposedly governs the sites, but in reality the KGC doesn't do much. I have answered as a CS manager many KGC inquiries and never once have they ever followed up with me. As long as they receive an answer from the site within the usual 2 week period then that this all that usually matters. So really, you are back to square one.

This is one of the reasons why sites tell you to actually contact the KGC. It is a final resort to actually relieve themselves of having to constantly answer you and deal with customer service issues that go nowhere. Sometimes this deflection is justified, but really sites have an owness to take full responsibility in ensuring the player's concerns are met first before actually advising the player to go to the KGC.


[ QUOTE ]
I am not big on regulation, but I do believe that from the tone of these posts that we all are ready for some kind of structure. Situations like mine are only going to increase.

While I'm not a big fan of our current administration, I know that if this situation happened on US soil, I would not be treated like I live in a 3rd world country.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the site has poor policies on handling customer service issues, especially like the case here then no regulation is really going to help.

In my professional opinion, I think you still need to push hard on Full Tilt and take whatever action you think is necessary to have your account reopened as soon as possible.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Any updates on this situation?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Deja vu all over again?!?!

sillysal=BeatMe1?????

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
sillysal,

I'll touch base with the security team on your case. While I don't know the details of your situation, it's likely they are waiting on information from other sources.

This doesn't excuse you being kept in the dark though. I'll see what I can find out by tomorrow.

Sean

[/ QUOTE ]

hey Sean,

It is now Friday 2 weeks after FT froze my account. Can you contact me either by phone, e-mail or through 2+2. I appreciate your help in this.

Thanks

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any updates on this situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Dear FT,

The longer you go without even contacting this customer while she is VERY POLITELY begging you to do so regarding her $47-FREAKING-K...the more potential customers you will scare away.

For $47k being locked-up I believe this customer deserves a phone-call or three updating her on the situation.
Yeah yeah yeah...you don't normally have phone-support. But obviously your e-mail stuff is pretty darned slow and I think somebody over there can take time out of their busy schedule to keep this customer informed. Sorry if it breaks up your day and all and you really don't feel like doin git because you have better things to do like fixing your laggy software or something. And I think it's great that guys like Doug and Sean make up for some of the lack of contact with your customers by appearing on these forums every once in awhile. But people are getting kind of sick of reading of all the situations like this where the communication is practically zero.

Several months ago there was a commitment made on these forums to improve in matters such as this. Well, picking up the phone and calling your customer who is likely really freaking out about their $47-FREAKING-K would be a nice way to START to make good on such a commitment.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dear FT,

The longer you go without even contacting this customer while she is VERY POLITELY begging you to do so regarding her $47-FREAKING-K...the more potential customers you will scare away.

For $47k being locked-up I believe this customer deserves a phone-call or three updating her on the situation.
Yeah yeah yeah...you don't normally have phone-support. But obviously your e-mail stuff is pretty darned slow and I think somebody over there can take time out of their busy schedule to keep this customer informed. Sorry if it breaks up your day and all and you really don't feel like doin git because you have better things to do like fixing your laggy software or something. And I think it's great that guys like Doug and Sean make up for some of the lack of contact with your customers by appearing on these forums every once in awhile. But people are getting kind of sick of reading of all the situations like this where the communication is practically zero.

Several months ago there was a commitment made on these forums to improve in matters such as this. Well, picking up the phone and calling your customer who is likely really freaking out about their $47-FREAKING-K would be a nice way to START to make good on such a commitment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing has changed, other than the broken record that is played every time something like this happens to a player.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

It's pushing three days since Sean posted and no new word, not even some "we still don't have all the info we need but we haven't just forgotten".
Is that how I'm reading it at this point?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

sillysal posted right after sean that she had just heard from somebody in support right as Sean was replying.
Perhaps Sean thought this meant she was satisfied for the time-being and that she no longer needed to hear back from him or something like that.

But I think keeping the customer updated practically every day wouldn't be too over-the-top for a situation like this. And the customer shouldn't have to hound/beg you all the time just to get updates.

And the customer shouldn't have to sit there and think, "Has it been long enough since the last e-mail I sent? I don't want to bug them too much since they do have my money afterall. Okay, I think it's been long enough now."

One starts to get afraid that FT is going to get ticked at the customer asking them over and over, "any update? can I have my money yet?"
The customer shouldn't be made to feel that FT is pretty much thinking/saying, "just be patient and please stop bugging us about it."

And this whole business of saying they'll get back to you within 2 days or whatever and then NOT doing it is really pathetic. Then you respond a day or two after that saying, "It's now been 4 days and you said you would get back to me in 2 days. Please let me know what's going on."

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
sillysal,

I'll touch base with the security team on your case. While I don't know the details of your situation, it's likely they are waiting on information from other sources.

This doesn't excuse you being kept in the dark though. I'll see what I can find out by tomorrow.

Sean

[/ QUOTE ]

It is inexcusible. I've read several of these threads and every person is kept in the dark. That's like getting tried for murder, but not knowing what teh charge is until after the jury has made the verdict.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's pushing three days since Sean posted and no new word, not even some "we still don't have all the info we need but we haven't just forgotten".
Is that how I'm reading it at this point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is how you read it. Just about 15 minutes ago, Sean PM'd me and said that FTP invetigation team would be contacting me later today. I appreciate him contacting me.

I was writing about once a day and then got a letter back from them saying that I was actually slowing down the investigation. So I chilled for 4 days and then started posting after I heard nothing from them.

I don't want to be a FTP basher. I have up to this point had no problems with this site and have actually had some complaints I've made turn to my favor. I received bot money back during the whole bot scandal and while they have been slow in the past in returning e mails, overall it's been a good relationship.

However, I just know that if I was holding 47 grand of theirs they wouldn't accept "please be patient" and "we understand the situation this is putting you in" . Nor would they accept NO contact for 4 days.

I want online poker to survie and thrive. I want the sites to be diligent in our protection. By the same token, when situations like these arise communication is vital. I've made myself 100 % available to FTP. I will keep you all posted and again thanks for the support.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

There is almost a DAILY thread on here how FT has screwed someone one way or the other. Is rakeback such a benefit that people would play on such a shady site over earning FPPs at Stars?

FWIW I have never or will never play on Full Tilt so I have no experience with this but there are SO MANY threads like this it would make me never trust this site.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

My guess would be there timing sucks ass to because they had one of there down times soon after they locked your account.

Basically this is the first time ihave ever emailed and not gotten fast responses even though people always complain.

This really sucks i just dont get why full tilt seems to do this so randomly.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]

I was writing about once a day and then got a letter back from them saying that I was actually slowing down the investigation.

[/ QUOTE ]



OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!

This is SOOOOOO pathetic.
FTP - YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK YOU SUCK!!!!


FWIW - if all they're doing is waiting around for somebody's charges to clear or for someone else to send in ID then I don't see how sillysal's e-mails can be slowing their investigation at all.

And if it's really a matter of these e-mails getting in the way of their work or checking HH's or whatever and that reading and writing to their customers is really so time-consuming then that implies that they are taking an abnormally long time to do whatever the hell it is that needs to be done.


The more likely scenario is that they have to sit around and wait for some charge to clear or something but that they just don't want to deal with their customers' e-mails.


So they fire back a good old "the more you write to us, the longer we're going to take...nyah nyah nyah!!!"

Maybe if they actually responded within 3 days or whatever when they say that's what they're going to do they wouldn't have to deal with their customers always saying, "It's now been a week since you told me I would hear from you within 2 days. Please let me know you haven't forgot about me."


Seriously...tellling their customer to STOP WRITING TO THEM because it will make their investigation take longer is so horrible.

FTP Sean and Doug - I know I've been tough in my criticisms of you before but I really have been pulling for you guys because I think FT's success would be good for all of online-poker and I think the more options in safe and secure sites everyone has the better off everyone is.
Believe it or not, I have actually been restrained in some of my previous criticisms as you may be able to tell by my rapidly changing tone through this situation.

but I'm kind of sick of being polite I guess. You guys are not only keeping your own player in the dark but somebody there actually told her to stop bugging them or else they would take longer to get her the money back.

i think there are some serious customer-service issues that FT needs to address right-away. Not of the "we're looking into it and hope to make it better within a few months..." but now.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Am I the only one here that sees a possibility that FTP has strong evidence that OP violated some rules? I'm not saying OP is or accusing or anything, but PERHAPS there is reason FTP did this to a 47k customer. Its pretty easy to jump on the "i hate ftp" bandwagon, but lets say that they come out with information in a few days that shows OP used a bot, or cheated somehow. Then, would you still bash FTP for the way they handled this situation?

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but I just think theres a reason FTP security is doing things the way they are, and I feel its for protection of players. I've never heard of them to take anyone's money without cause.

OP if you have done nothing wrong, then you really do have nothing to worry about. imo

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

"Then, would you still bash FTP for the way they handled this situation?"


Yes. There is no excuse for not communicating with their customers.
There is even less excuse for the statements they actually are giving when they do bother to communicate which include:

"Be patient. We'll contact you in 72 hours" when they apparently won't and possibly had no intention of doing so as evidenced by their failure to follow-through on such a promise in previous situations...or...
"Stop bugging us or we will freeze your money even longer" which is essentially what they said.


Yes, there's a chance that OP really did do something wrong.
But they've had this kind of lack of communication and really lengthy delays in the past for perfectly innocent players.
And whether guilty or innocent I think the site has an obligation to inform their players of what is going on and to actually RESPOND to e-mails.

Your point is valid though that they apparently haven't confiscated funds from innocent players in the past or, at least, don't seem to have a history of it,
Off the top of my head, the poster LimitNinja might disagree with that but despite his protestations to the contrary a few months ago I don't think many people here believed that FT nabbed an innocent dude in that situation.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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Am I the only one here that sees a possibility that FTP has strong evidence that OP violated some rules? I'm not saying OP is or accusing or anything, but PERHAPS there is reason FTP did this to a 47k customer. Its pretty easy to jump on the "i hate ftp" bandwagon, but lets say that they come out with information in a few days that shows OP used a bot, or cheated somehow. Then, would you still bash FTP for the way they handled this situation?

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but I just think theres a reason FTP security is doing things the way they are, and I feel its for protection of players. I've never heard of them to take anyone's money without cause.

OP if you have done nothing wrong, then you really do have nothing to worry about. imo

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not somuch bashing FT but you have to admit that due to the sheer number of FT SCREWED ME threads that something is up. I never see such a thread about Stars. Either Stars
> FT or there are lots more shady players there.

Either way FT sure catches a lot of heat and where theres smoke.....

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Perhaps FTP has done this to innocent players before, and that is definitely wrong.

But I do disagree with "And whether guilty or innocent I think the site has an obligation to inform their players of what is going on and to respond to e-mails." If the party is very guilty and the website has proven evidence, then I don't think that they owe anything to the player.

I guess my point is.. It woudln't be hard for FTP to tell the customer what is at the heart of the investigation, so I believe that in certain situations, the customer is kept in the dark for a reason. I've never really heard of FTP (at least not within this year) not responding to players within 2-3 days in normal situations.

I guess I rather wait and see what the outcome is, before I pass judgement. If sillysal is innocent as she proclaims, then I will agree that FTP was very wrong in this situation, to scare a customer, and to waste 2-3 of their playing time. But if she is guilty of some fradulent activity, then I will have had no problem with how they handled it.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one here that sees a possibility that FTP has strong evidence that OP violated some rules? I'm not saying OP is or accusing or anything, but PERHAPS there is reason FTP did this to a 47k customer. Its pretty easy to jump on the "i hate ftp" bandwagon, but lets say that they come out with information in a few days that shows OP used a bot, or cheated somehow. Then, would you still bash FTP for the way they handled this situation?

I'm not trying to insinuate anything, but I just think theres a reason FTP security is doing things the way they are, and I feel its for protection of players. I've never heard of them to take anyone's money without cause.

OP if you have done nothing wrong, then you really do have nothing to worry about. imo

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not somuch bashing FT but you have to admit that due to the sheer number of FT SCREWED ME threads that something is up. I never see such a thread about Stars. Either Stars
> FT or there are lots more shady players there.

Either way FT sure catches a lot of heat and where theres smoke.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand where you are coming from, but like i said above, I dont believe anybody has truly ever been "screwed" by FTP. Maybe mistreated, yes. Also, If you take a look through all of the "FTP screwed me" threads.. you'll notice a certain trend of "newcomer OP" complaints, and the usual "FTP SUCKS STARS RULES" posters.

I'm not an FTP cheerleader by any means, and i'm sure PokerStars customer service is overall better than FTP. But I think FTP is still fairly new at being one of the BIG poker sites, and I think they have improved very much in service.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

She could be the most guilty bot or multi-accounter or colluder on the planet and that would still be no excuse for them to say, "if you don't stop bugging us we'll just make it take longer" or "we'll contact you within 72 hours....SIKE!!! Ha. Not Really!!"

Yes, they've had a history according to other posters on this forum of not responding to e-mails within 2-3 days. And also being very evasive in their responses.

They should be welcoming of a dialogue.
They should be willing to talk to their players.
They should assume some chance that the player is innocent and that confiscating $47k can be a huge burden on someone and that somebody in such a situation deserves better than the treatement FT is giving them.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
She could be the most guilty bot or multi-accounter or colluder on the planet and that would still be no excuse for them to say, "if you don't stop bugging us we'll just make it take longer" or "we'll contact you within 72 hours....SIKE!!! Ha. Not Really!!"

[/ QUOTE ]

If she is the most guilty bot, or multi-accounter, or colluder, i can care less how FTP treats them lol.

I understand where you are going with the "we'll contact you within 72 hours" and then not, but I think you're taking it a bit far when you say you think she/he deserves anything if they are the "most guilty bot or multi-accounter or colluder on the planet".

I'm sure if she/he were guilty in cheating you of your money, and FTP was investigating it, that you could give two &#%#'s less how they treat him/her. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

but maybe thats just me

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Full Tilt does this regardless of whether the person turns out to be innocent or guilty.
It's their default bad support model.
This isn't an ends justify the means thing.

I hate feeling like I'm piling on, but people are correct- you simply don't get stories like this from Stars where their support simply go missing for days on end about a serious topic.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

I think that a little piling-on is a decent idea in this situation if people would like to see change.

FT likely just looks at me as some hyper, over-vocal wind-bag who whines and bitches about everything anyway. Besides, I haven't even played on their site in forever.

I sispect they are more likely to listen if more people voice their opinion.
The less people complain the more they can think, "well, it only bothers a handful of players so doing things the same way we always have seems to be good enough for now."

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Well, the last thing i wanted was for this thread to be hi-jacked into another redundant "stars vs ftp" or "stars > ftp", and to be taken away from the OP's original post, so i'll agree to disagree and be on my way [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

but surely since people can voice their opinion against FTP, I can voice mine for them. I've been very happy playing at both FTP and Stars, and have found my overall poker experience more profitable than Stars. I've always received polite and fast replies within hours, and have had a few situations resolved rather promptly.

OP, i'm sorry if you're proven innocent and your time has been wasted. FTP says that they are investigating you after watching you play for 96 hours, so there has to be some reason they are looking into this, your fault or not. Hope everything gets resolved!

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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Yeah yeah yeah...you don't normally have phone-support.

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What is this, a [censored] joke?

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

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But I do disagree with "And whether guilty or innocent I think the site has an obligation to inform their players of what is going on and to respond to e-mails." If the party is very guilty and the website has proven evidence, then I don't think that they owe anything to the player.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's a huge problem with this mindset. If a player is "under investigation", does that not mean their guilt or innocence has not been proven? IF FT knows they are guilty, their account will already be locked permanently, end of story. If they are under investigation, FT needs to communicate properly and come to a resolution as quickly as possible. How do you propose they communicate to the innocent and not to the guilty? They don't know if the person is guilty or innocent until AFTER they have or have not been treated well. You couldn't have a justice system where the innocent were given a fair trial and the guilty went straight to sentencing. The trial needs to come first.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess my point is.. It woudln't be hard for FTP to tell the customer what is at the heart of the investigation, so I believe that in certain situations, the customer is kept in the dark for a reason.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not being able to share information with the player due to an ongoing investigation does not mean you tell them one thing and do another, and it does not mean you drag an investigation out without at least communicating with the player.

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I've never really heard of FTP (at least not within this year) not responding to players within 2-3 days in normal situations.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you obviously don't read these forums on a regular basis. I haven't seen one of these threads in a while, but there have been a few this year. And of course I'm sure there's plenty more that DON'T post here.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I rather wait and see what the outcome is, before I pass judgement. If sillysal is innocent as she proclaims, then I will agree that FTP was very wrong in this situation, to scare a customer, and to waste 2-3 of their playing time. But if she is guilty of some fradulent activity, then I will have had no problem with how they handled it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again, this makes no sense...the ends justifies the means? It will be OK that she was treated poorly if she is guilty, but if she is innocent...oops, now we have a problem?