Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

How does having the same stats PROVE I was using illegal software? I'm interested in other high stake winning players stats. Can we post those as well? How does this make me a bot?

Anybody ever see me have weird timing issues? How many of you seen me tilt and run away. I'm kind of known for that. What bot runs from action? LOL.

I want to see the PROOF that they found any type of illegal software running on my computer. That's the kind of proof I'm demanding. Posting my stasts is just not gonna cut the mustard FTP.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
It might be because you use 2 accounts...
grego777 and pokergirl z
-Crazy Mike

[/ QUOTE ]




I knew I had seen the name grego777 before.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
How does having the same stats PROVE I was using illegal software? I'm interested in other high stake winning players stats. Can we post those as well? How does this make me a bot?

Anybody ever see me have weird timing issues? How many of you seen me tilt and run away. I'm kind of known for that. What bot runs from action? LOL.

I want to see the PROOF that they found any type of illegal software running on my computer. That's the kind of proof I'm demanding. Posting my stasts is just not gonna cut the mustard FTP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting switch in tone. I'm leaning towards more likely than not you were cheating, but how FTP handled/is handling this is still atrocious, because more likely than not is not enough to justify seizing 47 grand.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the PF%, W$SD% and AF's all don't tell you very much.
I have to think lots of heads-up players are in that range.

The other stuff I'm really not so sure. Would be interesting to get some input from other heads-up players as to how unusual they think it is for the 3 players to have such similar stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh boy, I was really hoping FT wasn't ONLY going to give this information.

This is really tough, b/c if you were going to come up with a simple, basic strategy I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that stats of a bunch of different players could mirror one another (even this closely).

With that said, its been quite obvious to us who have played these games for a while that pokergirl z and greggo77 play just about the same as the bots who were previously busted. How much that means or doesn't mean I'm not sure.

I really think it's pretty scary if FT is simply going of the stats of these players without any way of determining how statistically significant those numbers actually are. You can't just say "oh they have identical stats so they must be bots". Of course it makes it more likely but I just can't see it being damning.

Also, 3-4 months ago I thought Daurgman was a bot (and actually made a post about it which I later deleted as most people disagreed). As recent as a month ago his play was much different and not consistent with "botish" play.

Also, to gehrig and anyone else who plays these games...I have to imagine "cenizo" has an almost identical style to these guys. Are we convicting him as well?

I just really hope there's more information that this. Like I said, it's really difficult for anyone to say how statictically significant these numbers are.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

So you do not deny having multiple accounts?

EDIT: You guys are overlooking the fact that those stats are simply an EXTRACT of what Mike was given. I'm quite confident that their decision was definitely not based on stats alone.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

In a game like limit, wouldn't better players gravitate towards very similar stats in the long run?

This seems like a huge witch hunt.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]
So looking at the stats Mike Haven has posted, sillysal's stats certainly do look similar to the other two players.

What I'd like to know is, how much MORE similar sillysal's stats are to these players, as compared to all other LHE players on FTP. Similarity is certainly not proof when there are millions of accounts on FTP, and where at least one of those accounts will randomly have stats similar to known bots.

If this is FTP's "evidence" then it's statistically very weak.

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I haven't read the whole thread.

FT has some info that we don't, the complete knowledge of the hole cards. I don't doubt that there are several people with nearly identical stats to mine playing the same limits - but there are going to be differences in the hole cards that are played.

I'd certainly hope that FT isn't going to freeze accounts on stats alone, given that they have access to perfect information that is unavailable to the general public.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting switch in tone. I'm leaning towards more likely than not you were cheating

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Yeah, my thoughts too. But I'm still open-minded about this.

Will be interesting to hear from Mike Haven if FT had more to it than just that. I assume they did.

Honestly, it seems like sillysal is perfectly willing to let FT say ANYTHING about the investigation. She has waived her privacy stuff and doesn't mind ANY of the information being out there.
In fact, she is begging for it to be publicized.

So I really don't know why we need Mike Haven in the middle of all this necessarily.
FT can just let everyone in on whatever additional info they choose without having to go through a middle-man.

So even this aspect of the information release is being handled a bit ridiculously imo.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

MicroBob: The reason for Mike is because, as they said before, they don't want the public knowing how they detect cheaters. So basically by having a middle man they're only letting one person (Mike) know how they detect cheaters with him giving his opinion on the evidence.

And everybody, don't forget that they ended up saying that the 3 or 4 accused players in the giant thread about 1/2 NL FR bots were innocent EVEN THOUGH their stats were extremely similar, and there was much more evidence than what we have been presented with here in this case so far.

Re: Fulltilt froze my account with 47 grand in it
 

Seems like you're a cheater, SillySal.

Maybe FTP didn't handle the situation properly, but perhaps we should recognize that it seems they did make the right decision and I think they have a right to be annoyed if an obvious cheater sends them dozens of emails claiming their innocence.