What should be the ruling here?
 

Two players involved in a large pot at showdown. A scare (flush) card appears on the river. Out of position guy checks his 2 pair. Aggressive guy in position fires a large bet. OOP thinks for some time then calls, obviously frustrated. Aggressive guy, possibly angle shooting, says "Got a flush..."

2 pair guy angrily flips his hand over in front on him and says "Take it". Everyone at the table including the dealer see his hand.

Now for the key moment - another player at the table tosses his cards into the muck before the other hand is shown.

The other guy now says "No...i meant, do you have a flush?". He now reveals 1 pair for what was the losing hand.

"...but I'll take the pot, his cards are in the muck" he says.

What proceeds now is an almighty blowup at the table. The floor is called over.

What's the right call?



.Z

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

In my very uninformed opinion, the guy with the best hand wins. Cards speak and everyone saw them. Goes double if they are easily identifiable in the muck.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

2 pair wins. easy

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

right call is 2 pair wins the pot. Hand was turned over. Simple and done.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

Once his cards are tabled, they play. Another player cannot kill his hand. Dealer cannot kill his hand. Guy who said "flush" and tried to claim the pot needs to be told forcefully by the floor that intentionally miscalling a hand is cheating and won't be tolerated.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

The guy who had the two pair verbally surrendered the hand, its not clear if the statement by the other player was a question or a statement. The guy with one pair was under no obligation to show his cards, so I dont know why he did. It seems like his statement was a question so he takes the pot. What did the floor rule?

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who had the two pair verbally surrendered the hand, its not clear if the statement by the other player was a question or a statement. The guy with one pair was under no obligation to show his cards, so I dont know why he did. It seems like his statement was a question so he takes the pot. What did the floor rule?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can only verbally surrender your hand if you do not show. If he shows, his verbal declaration of "take it" does not set precedence until the other player shows a winner.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

The reaction of the guy that said 'flush' lead me to believe it was an angle shoot. You would think most 'reasonable' people would give the pot to the best hand no matter what the ruling. But the angle shooter started making a BIG scene, finger pointing and yelling at the floor "YOU KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT RULING IS!".

Floor told the dealer to award the pot to the best hand (2 pair).



.Z

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Floor told the dealer to award the pot to the best hand (2 pair).

[/ QUOTE ]

I love a happy ending.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The guy who had the two pair verbally surrendered the hand, its not clear if the statement by the other player was a question or a statement. The guy with one pair was under no obligation to show his cards, so I dont know why he did. It seems like his statement was a question so he takes the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You either have a problem with reading comprehension or have never played in a B & M.

Showdown.
Player A tables his cards face up. He shows 2 pair.
Player B either shows a better hand or loses the pot. He shows 1 pair.

2 pair wins beats 1 pair.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
But the angle shooter started making a BIG scene, finger pointing and yelling at the floor "YOU KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT RULING IS!".

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, up until this point, the guy had plausible deniability. Now he is just another stupid, ignorant, douchebag angleshooter.

I would hope he got a stern warning (like next time you do this we will kick you out).

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

cards speak

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

I think you're right that the key is when the "got a flush" guy said, "but his hand is in the muck, I'll take the pot." That would lead me, as a floorperson, to consider that the guy was indeed angling. And, if he was not angling, and was really asking "got a flush?" then the answer was provided by the other player: he turned up his two pair.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The reaction of the guy that said 'flush' lead me to believe it was an angle shoot. You would think most 'reasonable' people would give the pot to the best hand no matter what the ruling. But the angle shooter started making a BIG scene, finger pointing and yelling at the floor "YOU KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT RULING IS!".

Floor told the dealer to award the pot to the best hand (2 pair).



.Z

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if it is where I am living now but I have seen a tremendous up turn in "kill that hand so I can win without the best hand" recently.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

What is an angleshooters favorite word?

Magicmuck

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is an angleshooters favorite word?

Magicmuck

[/ QUOTE ]

The most recent one a guy bets the flop. There are several folds apparently he didn't see the last guys cards. He threw his cards forward and then grabbed them back when he realized there was still a player to act. The player that hadn't acted yet wanted the pot claiming the other player's cards had touched the muck. He then promptly folded when I told him it was up to him.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

After a stunt like that, why wait 'till next time. I think this guy deserves a day of right now.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

Just to clarify, a third player tossed the hand into the muck after the first player showed two-pair?

And then Mr "Got a flush" (and no, not "... got a flush") asked/demands the pot?

Is he kidding?

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

Yeah I was a bit confused about that point too. If there was a third player who mucked the winning hand (even if he thought it was a loser), a KITN for him as well - let the dealer do his job.

Re: What should be the ruling here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The guy who had the two pair verbally surrendered the hand, its not clear if the statement by the other player was a question or a statement. The guy with one pair was under no obligation to show his cards, so I dont know why he did. It seems like his statement was a question so he takes the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You either have a problem with reading comprehension or have never played in a B & M.

Showdown.
Player A tables his cards face up. He shows 2 pair.
Player B either shows a better hand or loses the pot. He shows 1 pair.

2 pair wins beats 1 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry missed the line where the second player called the river bet, my bad. Two pair gets the hand.