Two Plus Two Newer Archives - Absolute Cliffsnotes (Mod edit: AP thread, part 2)

New 9/17 update: We have the Potripper final table HH: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=beats&Number=1212 3790

Extra special mod note: random conspiracy theories about AP's rigged flops, other sites, or online poker in general = instaban. Take it to other threads or p5's.

new mod edit: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12111494

Adanthar requested someone make a cliffsnotes thread to condense the already massive thread, so here goes.

There was a thread in High Stakes Limit that has been up for maybe a week or so, with speculation that a few high stakes limit players could see hole cards. Accounts under suspicion were STEAMROLLER , DOUBLEDRAG , and GRAYCAT . The suspicion had to do with the Win% at showdown, river aggression factor, and their extremely loose preflop stats.

POTRIPPER also made it very deep in a $1k NL tourney, making expert calls like:

Stage #896976330 Tourney ID 1883389 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $4500 - 2007-09-13 01:43:49 (ET)
Table: 14 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 3 - POTRIPPER ($765740 in chips)
Seat 8 - CRAZYMARCO ($214260 in chips)
POTRIPPER - Ante $450
CRAZYMARCO - Ante $450
POTRIPPER - Posts small blind $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Posts big blind $4500
*** POCKET CARDS ***
POTRIPPER - Calls $2250
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
*** FLOP *** [4h Kd Kh]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $9000
CRAZYMARCO - Calls $9000
*** TURN *** [4h Kd Kh] [7s]
CRAZYMARCO - Checks
POTRIPPER - Bets $13500
CRAZYMARCO - All-In(Raise) $200310 to $200310
POTRIPPER - Calls $186810
*** RIVER *** [4h Kd Kh 7s] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
POTRIPPER - Shows [10c 9c] (One pair, kings)
CRAZYMARCO - Shows [9h 2h] (One pair, kings)
POTRIPPER Collects $428520 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($428520)
Board [4h Kd Kh 7s 5s]
Seat 3: POTRIPPER (dealer) (small blind) won Total ($428520) HI:($428520) with One pair, kings(ten kicker) [10c 9c - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:10c,P:9c,B:7s]
Seat 8: CRAZYMARCO (big blind) HI:lost with One pair, kings [9h 2h - B:Kh,B:Kd,P:9h,B:7s,B:5s]

After some time (or maybe after xposted to BBV), some suspicion was also brought up regarding these players NL play, mostly at 10/20 and 15/30 NL. They all played a VERY loose preflop style (90/80ish) with hudge river aggression factors. These "superusers" were much easier to spot at NL, especially given about 100 hands of HU from ikestoys vs. DOUBLEDRAG. In the 100 hands, the 3 times Doubledrag folded were when ikestoys had QQ-AA, or when another player 3bet before Doubledrag could act.

It was then brought up that these accounts are very likely the same person, perhaps Mark Seif. Hold on, Let me get my DOOMSWITCH. He was playing HU at 75/150 poo fling, playing terribly and dropping a couple k. Then he says "one second punk"....leaves the table.....then comes back about a minute later and announces "I'm ready to take you down." (from linked thread). Highlights following this involved openfolding when his opponent flopped a boat and capping bottom pair when ahead, etc.

So I think thats the gist of it. It is pretty obvious that if these guys are colluding they are very bad at it and arent really hiding it at all. It is possible the accounts are an AP insider who is disgruntled (Seif was fired a month or 2 ago) and is trying to tarnish the sites reputation.

Nothing is 100% proven yet. There are a few hands where the accounts play in a way where it is not obvious they can see cards:

STAGE #753356407: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-09-04 17:21:03 (ET)
Table: ALHAMBRA (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - DOUBLEDRAG ($19435 in chips)
Seat 6 - PRIMOGENITOX ($3041 in chips)
Seat 3 - PTOWNER ($8196 in chips)
Seat 4 - THE GRINDER ($7396 in chips)
PRIMOGENITOX - Posts small blind $15
PTOWNER - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PRIMOGENITOX [Qd Qh]
THE GRINDER - Raises $120 to $120
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $270 to $270
PRIMOGENITOX - Raises $985 to $1000
PTOWNER - Folds
THE GRINDER - Folds
DOUBLEDRAG - Folds
PRIMOGENITOX - returned ($730) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PRIMOGENITOX - Does not show
PRIMOGENITOX Collects $690 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($690)
Seat 3: PTOWNER (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: THE GRINDER Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: DOUBLEDRAG (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: PRIMOGENITOX (small blind) collected Total ($690)

Seat 5 - HOWDUZZYDOIT ($16.50 in chips)
Seat 1 - FRISCOMELT ($8301 in chips)
Seat 2 - FU_BEGGAR ($6000 in chips)
Seat 4 - DOUBLEDRAG ($2365 in chips)
FRISCOMELT - Posts small blind $15
FU_BEGGAR - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $90 to $90
HOWDUZZYDOIT - Folds
FRISCOMELT - Calls $75
FU_BEGGAR - Folds
*** FLOP *** [6d 4d Kc]
FRISCOMELT - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $90
FRISCOMELT - Calls $90
*** TURN *** [6d 4d Kc] [Jc]
FRISCOMELT - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $480
FRISCOMELT - Calls $480
*** RIVER *** [6d 4d Kc Jc] [2c]
FRISCOMELT - Bets $7170
DOUBLEDRAG - All-In $1705
FRISCOMELT - returned ($5465) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
FRISCOMELT - Shows [8c 7c] (Flush, king high)
DOUBLEDRAG - Mucks
FRISCOMELT Collects $4758 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($4760) | Rake ($2)
Board [6d 4d Kc Jc 2c]
Seat 1: FRISCOMELT (small blind) won Total ($4758) HI:($4758) wit Flush, king high [8c 7c - B:Kc,B:Jc,P:8c,P:7c,B:2c]
Seat 2: FU_BEGGAR (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 4: DOUBLEDRAG HI: [Mucked] [Qs 2s]
Seat 5: HOWDUZZYDOIT (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS

And some screenshots:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/491/graycatrb9.jpg http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4894/dragxm4.jpg http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...doubledrag.jpg http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4...bledragbd7.jpg http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8682/moredragem8.jpg