live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

I'm dealt J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in BB. 5 limpers, SB completes, I check. The game is somewhat tight passive, and there are more players in this hand than on average.

Flop [6+ SB]: 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB bets...

SB is fairly aggressive and probably has top pair or any pair+draw here but wouldn't 3-bet most of these.

Do I have enough to continue? Fold, call or raise here?

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

what would you say you have here, exactly? what would you hope to accomplish with a call, or a raise? let's see your thought process [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

I'd give you about 6 outs here and your getting 8-1 on your call which is plenty.My only concern is there's 5 people still to act who could raise and ruin your odds, you said the game is passive and the sb unlikely to 3 bet if raised, so I would call.

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

I'd be interested in hearing your thought process, too. I think this flop is unlikely to be raised behind, but even still I don't like 5 left to act.

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

I think I have a fair amount of equity against the SB's range -- he could have as little as something like A5 here.

If there are a lot of players involved in this pot, I'm not thrilled if I hit a jack, where I'm likely to be outkicked; if I hit a 9, of course, I can't play very aggressively since it completes an OESD.

Even if I do hit a jack on the turn and it's good, I'd still have to dodge a lot of overcards.

Hands I want out of this pot if I'm to continue: jacks that have me outkicked; 9's that would chop if a 7 hits; T's that would give me an OESD on the turn that could raise the turn and make it expensive to see the river; a lot of overcard hands that might just keep peeling and run me down if I hit just a jack.

If I raise and can likely get it heads up with SB, I'd have put in two bets out of 8 with well over 25% equity against his range.

OTOH, my hand is s*$#, I'm out of position, and I have 5 players behind me, so maybe I should just fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edited to add: also, I haven't played a hand in about 3 orbits, I think it's been noticed, and I think if I raise, most people will fold here without at least TP or an OESD.

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

You have a one card GS draw which is worth about 2 outs. A nine puts 4 to a str8 on the board and your Jack isn't even worth 1.5 outs because if you hit one on the turn you are vulnerable to an A,K or Q on the river, if not already out-kicked by another Jack. I think 4 outs would be generous, especially when you have this many opponents.

With that board and SB leading into the field, I am folding. Even in a passive game there is too much risk of having to pay multiple bets to see the turn with a hand that could easily be drawing to 3 outs for a chop.

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I have a fair amount of equity against the SB's range -- he could have as little as something like A5 here.

If there are a lot of players involved in this pot, I'm not thrilled if I hit a jack, where I'm likely to be outkicked; if I hit a 9, of course, I can't play very aggressively since it completes an OESD.

Even if I do hit a jack on the turn and it's good, I'd still have to dodge a lot of overcards.

Hands I want out of this pot if I'm to continue: jacks that have me outkicked; 9's that would chop if a 7 hits; T's that would give me an OESD on the turn that could raise the turn and make it expensive to see the river; a lot of overcard hands that might just keep peeling and run me down if I hit just a jack.

If I raise and can likely get it heads up with SB, I'd have put in two bets out of 8 with well over 25% equity against his range.

OTOH, my hand is s*$#, I'm out of position, and I have 5 players behind me, so maybe I should just fold. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edited to add: also, I haven't played a hand in about 3 orbits, I think it's been noticed, and I think if I raise, most people will fold here without at least TP or an OESD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even going to count a 9 as an out. I think you have either three or four outs here.

I agree that your hand is [censored] and you're OOP with five left to act. I think I'm just going to dump it.

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

You've gotta drop this. If you're sitting in MP with only two players behind you and 1 or 2 more callers in front of you, then I think you can call. But you just don't have enough here to continue in this "not that big" pot.

Re: live 6/12, overs+gutshot from BB
 

With an entire basketball team behind you still left to act, choosing any action besides for folding is spew.