Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

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and might get him to lay down something marginal

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This isn't a reason to raise, either

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Unless his marginal is marginally better then your marginal. But it wouldn't be my primary reason, in any case.

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

You can bet for value, or you can bet to make a better hand fold, but you can't do both.

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

I raised the river for value. Got re-raised by a better 9. Don't know whether he made the hand on the river or not; given the action, it's quite likely that he actually had a monster starting hand in a steal position, and made his winning hand on 5th street.

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

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You can bet for value, or you can bet to make a better hand fold, but you can't do both.

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Why not? You've never been in the position of thinking you probably have the better hand but not being conpletely sure and when he checks you bet, or if he bets you raise, hoping you don't have to find out, but if you do that you at least get extra money? Which makes him less likely to bet his marginal hands in future during the session?

Or not. My own game has gotten so screwy lately I have no idea what I'm blathering on about.

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

If you're betting for value, you're hoping for a call, or at least, expecting he'll call, with hands worse than yours. (A value bet has no value if he won't call unless you're beat)

If you're bluffing, that is, hoping he'll fold a better hand, then you're hoping for a fold. (A bluff has no value if he'll only fold hands you beat)

There are times when you are value betting and your opponent will fold a better hand than yours. But you can't really hope for a call and a fold at the same time.

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

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But you can't really hope for a call and a fold at the same time.

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Doesn't the Sklansky/Miller NL book talk about exactly this?

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

I fold 3rd. River is an easy call since you called 6th and hit the best card possible for you

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

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But you can't really hope for a call and a fold at the same time.

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Doesn't the Sklansky/Miller NL book talk about exactly this?

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Probably. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if it said I was wrong.

I do remember TOP talking about something like this though... like if you were planning to bluff the next street, but you catch good, you can not bet for value now, and vice versa. (Because part of your plan/expectation was that your opponent would fold marginal hands to the bluff, you can't now expect to make money off value betting)

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

You can make a bet where some percentage of the time, the other guy will fold a hand you want him to fold, and some other percentage of the time, he will call with a hand you want him to call with. Individually, these might not be profitable, but the combined percentage might be. It's similar to a semi-bluff.

Re: Razz - single-table sat . - defending bring-in
 

yeah that's almost (I don't wanna say never but close enough) not applicable in limit games.