40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Live 40

UTG is a solid player but seems to be tilting a bit, trying to bump up the stakes and yapping on how he plays so high at other casions, etc.

He straddles.

Folded to the SB who is a spew-tard, jibber-jabber mouth, he asks the dealer, "is that a straddle?", the dealer says yes, and he 3-bets. I call 2 cold in the BB w/T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], UTG calls.

3 to the flop for 9SBs.

Flop 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

The SB bets and I raise, UTG now 3-bets, SB calls 2, I call.

3 to the turn for 9BBs.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks...Your action?

Comments on all streets appreciated.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

bet/3 if utg raises? just call if sb raises and fold if it's 2 cold back to you?

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

I guess it depends on how I read the "is that a straddle" and subsequent body language/action. In this position given player descriptions I put you ahead by a mile. I bet/call this turn. Given the description of UTG I'm not a huge fan of a c/r but i guess that depends on what he is going to bet here given his tilty-ness. I think PF and flop are fine.

EDIT: Re-reading the OP I guess I'm not too keen on the flop raise, probably would have just called.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Flop play looks a little spewy, but whatever I'm a tightwad.

On the turn I'm not really too worried about a flush here. It's a 3-way pot with a straddle and 2 blind hands; UTG looks to have been trying to protect a Q, and SB may have an 8 or a worse Q. So I guess you're thinking of whether to bet or checkraise... given those choices I like a bet. It gives you the option of 3-betting and charging the [censored] out of someone with a big diamond, and protects UTG from taking a free card if he wants one. And if SB does happen to have the flush, he'll checkraise now and let you know without having to put any more chips in the pot.

Also, checkraising might make the river tougher if a diamond falls, because you are more likely to be against 2 opponents than 1. Betting might narrow it to heads up, and you'll have a more obvious line to take depending on what the river card is.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Bet/3. I could see myself falling dead on the spot if I let this turn get checked through. If it's 2 more back to you probably fold. If it's Russ calls and spazz c/r I 3bet still because he's a tardo and can have a set easily.

There are a lot of posts/discussion about Russ lately it seems.

*edit*
You can't possibly fold preflop and I think capping is pointless. Flop is fine. You can call too but your way gives you opportunity for free card or win pot UI on turn depending on what you think you may be up against.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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bet/3 if utg raises? just call if sb raises and fold if it's 2 cold back to you?

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I can't see anything that involves folding as being correct.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

turn is a must bet imo. the real question is what to do if it gets raised. i like a call and maybe even a river lead depending on the card and the player(s).

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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turn is a must bet imo. the real question is what to do if it gets raised. i like a call and maybe even a river lead depending on the card and the player(s).

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why a stop and go?

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

I'm hoping we didn't spew on the flop just to slow down on the turn once we got there. Bet and call down if required.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Bet and try not to fold.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

please say who utg is. it'll help you get better educated answers. also sb.

you should bet the turn obviously and pay close attention to how utg acts. but id love to know who you played the hand against.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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please say who utg is. it'll help you get better educated answers.

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but less useful answers for those of us who don't know or care who Russ is...

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Maybe I'm stupid, but given player descriptions and action I would expect UTG to have a flush in this spot and SB a big pair. Yes/no?

EDIT: If anyone has a flush, which I don't think they do at this point.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

The raise on the flop makes no sense to me. Even if you were looking for a free card, your draw was too weak to be worth it.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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The raise on the flop makes no sense to me. Even if you were looking for a free card, your draw was too weak to be worth it.

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im assuming it's to free up possible outs with a T or 9.

i still dont like the raise however.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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[ QUOTE ]
turn is a must bet imo. the real question is what to do if it gets raised. i like a call and maybe even a river lead depending on the card and the player(s).

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why a stop and go?

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One reason is that a diamond on the river 3 ways will almost always kill hero's hand.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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The raise on the flop makes no sense to me. Even if you were looking for a free card, your draw was too weak to be worth it.

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im assuming it's to free up possible outs with a T or 9.

i still dont like the raise however.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys act as if we can never win without showdown.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

I shouldn't have said capping preflop was pointless before. If there is a chance Russ will fold then I actually think capping is the best play. However I seriously doubt someone who is on tilt and wondering why he finds himself in such a "low stakes" game is going to fold for 2 more bets after he straddles.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Pre-flop: Your hand has too much value to fold against a spewtard on whom you have position and a tilttard. So the only choice would be between calling and capping. I don't see what would be accomplished by capping against these two, so call seems better.

Flop: Again, nobody's going anywhere to a raise, so I would have preferred a call, given that straddler is probably raising the flop like 99.7% of the time, maybe even 99.8.

Turn: Hit 'em over the head with a hammer. Bet and re-raise.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

Wow. I would give serious thought here to one of them having a flush. Please come play at my table.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. I would give serious thought here to one of them having a flush. Please come play at my table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played this hand as near standard as I could, I was just checking up on my flop aggression, which I was assured I'm fine.

I bet the turn, they both called.

The river: Jh

I bet, SB nearly folded out of turn, UTG thought forever and folded.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

I would give it serious thought too. That's why I'd 3-bet.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Wow. I would give serious thought here to one of them having a flush. Please come play at my table.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played this hand as near standard as I could, I was just checking up on my flop aggression, which I was assured I'm fine.

I bet the turn, they both called.

The river: Jh

I bet, SB nearly folded out of turn, UTG thought forever and folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know the results are in so it is hard to make a real call on the correct play but I am curious as to your thoughts on the turn JT since you were there. I know Russ is aggro at times (funny how you never mentioned who it is yet we all know or think we know) but he likely sees you are reasonably nitty and when you see the diamond hit and donk out like "whoops that is my card boys" I think 3 betting a raise is a little spewy especially since you can't fold to a 4. Your thoughts?

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

you have to bet the turn. Far far too often the straddler recognizes the folly of his flop decision and checks the turn. Every other street is pretty standard. I like playing standard poker. It makes baby Jesus smile.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

i would call flop and bet turn and wouldn't think about folding unless it was about 8-bets back to me.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

I don't understand the point of your raise on the flop. Why are you trying to knock out the player to your left when you have a drawing hand? You have a gutshot and a backdoor flush. I'd want to see the turn as cheaply as possible and be done with the hand w/o improvement.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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I don't understand the point of your raise on the flop. Why are you trying to knock out the player to your left when you have a drawing hand?

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Facing the SB heads up with position is going to improve your chances to win if you miss your draw.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

preflop fine.

Flop raise is not good. A "spewy lagtard" leads out on the flop which means he is going to showdown with his Ace, pocket pair, or little piece he hit on the flop. To your left is a guy on tilt who just straddled which means he is unlikely to be going anywhere. Since it is unlikely you are going to win this before or at showdown as is, I would just call and enjoy the wonderful implied odds you have if you hit your gutshot. Why would you want to knock out the UTG and get heads up with someone who certainly seems to be showdown bound?

It would be tough not to go three bets on the turn here against the players described. I would absolutely three bet if UTG raised and probably three bet if SB check-raised.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

You played this hand fine. Flop raise is absolutely critical in my opinion. If you dont know whether you should bet the turn or check/raise, then I dont know either. I guess If I really didnt know which line was best on the turn, I would just bet myself.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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I don't understand the point of your raise on the flop. Why are you trying to knock out the player to your left when you have a drawing hand?

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Facing the SB heads up with position is going to improve your chances to win if you miss your draw.

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What are the chances of that happening, and how much does it improve your chances? And is the expectation from this combination of events worth the cost of the extra bet and the reduced payoff if you DO make your draw?

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand the point of your raise on the flop. Why are you trying to knock out the player to your left when you have a drawing hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Facing the SB heads up with position is going to improve your chances to win if you miss your draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. I don't think it'll work often but I guess it doesn't have to with the amount of dead money in the pot due to the straddle, assuming he now folds. The raise costs an extra small bet plus the two additional small bets you plan to bluff with on the turn. That's an investment of 3 small bets to try to win 11. So the SB has to check fold on the turn about 28% for this to be profitable. If he calls the turn I think he'll call the river as well.

The other side of this is that the sb, if he is a good player, realizes that you are getting very good pot odds to bluff and will consequently call down with rather weak holdings.

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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Wow. I would give serious thought here to one of them having a flush. Please come play at my table.

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lol, I guess you don't know who OP is?

Re: 40 T9s in the BB, more than one street to play. EDITED
 

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Wow. I would give serious thought here to one of them having a flush. Please come play at my table.

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lol, I guess you don't know who OP is?

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If he sees OP playing bad poker, maybe he doesn't care.