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-   -   Tournament Poker for Advanced Players?? (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=555392)

borisp 11-27-2007 05:11 AM

Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
This has to be the worst 2+2 book ever written. It contains downright bad advice (for example, see the "pass up small edges because you are the best player" bit). Furthermore, it discusses various limit games that are practically irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

Why rerelease this book?!?

(note this post was motivated by a similar post in NVG)

Mason Malmuth 11-27-2007 05:53 AM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
[ QUOTE ]
This has to be the worst 2+2 book ever written. It contains downright bad advice (for example, see the "pass up small edges because you are the best player" bit). Furthermore, it discusses various limit games that are practically irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

Why rerelease this book?!?


[/ QUOTE ]

The new version has a really snazzy cover.

MM

1p0kerboy 11-27-2007 09:15 AM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This has to be the worst 2+2 book ever written. It contains downright bad advice (for example, see the "pass up small edges because you are the best player" bit). Furthermore, it discusses various limit games that are practically irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

Why rerelease this book?!?


[/ QUOTE ]

The new version has a really snazzy cover.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

OP, FWIW, many of us enjoy the book and find it very useful.


jeffnc 11-27-2007 10:08 AM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
Wow, Mason has a sense of humor, who knew?

boris, perhaps some of the reasons you mention are the reason to rerelease it, not a reason not to. I heard it has many new pages.

Shandrax 11-27-2007 10:17 AM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, Mason has a sense of humor, who knew?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, how would you deal with a guy who obviously doesn't have a clue about ICM decisions?

*TT* 11-27-2007 12:58 PM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
[ QUOTE ]
it discusses various limit games that are practically irrelevant to the vast majority of players.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see.

daveT 11-27-2007 03:13 PM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
Why don't you just rename NVG, HSH, as in Hate Sklansky Here.

borisp 11-27-2007 03:51 PM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, Mason has a sense of humor, who knew?

boris, perhaps some of the reasons you mention are the reason to rerelease it, not a reason not to. I heard it has many new pages.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see how the limit discussion is of value, since it fills a niche. I admit that comment is off the mark.

But what about the fact that there is just horrible advice given in this book? On several occasions excessively tight play is advocated in NLHE MTT's, which may have been correct circa 1995, but nowadays this type of play will simply get devoured by the more aggressive styles that understand the necessity of taking risks. If you are consistently folding AQ and TT to reraises (mentioned in the "dont turn good hands into 72" section) then you are getting annihilated on resteals, particularly during the late stages.

Winning MTT's is all about constantly pushing small edges via aggressiveness, capitalizing on fold equity, etc. For Sklansky's recommendations to be correct, the rest of the field has to be really bad, and that simply isn't the case anymore, except perhaps in the WSOPME, or the Sunday Million (or generally tournaments with many satellite entries).

fraac 11-27-2007 04:56 PM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
Sklansky's advice is still applicable. Check it.

borisp 11-27-2007 05:34 PM

Re: Tournament Poker for Advanced Players??
 
I agree that the majority of the book is applicable, if perhaps not as relevant, as, say, the advice in HoH. But is it not important to 2+2 to have all of the advice be correct, as opposed to 98%? That is why I say it is the worst 2+2 book; it is the only one in which I've been able to identify outright logical mistakes.

As better example hands, he could have chosen Axs, or low pairs. AQ and TT are both easily good enough to play against a reraising LAGtard, and are both easily good enough to raise pf nearly 100% of the time.

And I still contend that his basic argument involving passing up small edges is way off for MTT's. The accumulation of small edges IS your edge in MTT's. People aren't waiting around to get their money in bad in the way his argument assumes they are. (Obviously, this analysis changes in final table scenarios, as the poster who assumed I knew nothing about ICM so graciously pointed out.)


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