Playing at the same place you deal.
 

During the WSOP this summer I played in a small tournament at Fitzgeralds, downtown.

I was in a hand where a LP player was trying to decide whether to call, raise, or fold. He showed his hand to the guy on his right, and flashed it to others (all I could see was some paint).

I called him on this, asking him not to show his cards to anyone while there was still action to take place. He took umbrage with me, saying that the guy on his right was out of the hand. I explained that others, including myself, saw at least one of his cards.

He eventually folded and made sure I was aware he was unhappy with me for speaking up.

The next day I was in the same tourney and as I took my seat, was unpleasantly surprised to see this same guy was DEALING!

What are the different policies concerning playing at the same place you deal?

Was I out of line for calling him down and shouldn't a dealer know better, and lean over backwards to set a good example for others?

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

When guy is showing his cards to other people, at least who aren't in the hand, it benefits his opponents, not him.

Kudos for being honest about it since you were in the hand.

Just because they deal doesn't mean they're any better than the average mope playing on your table.

b

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

Many of the dealers at Canterbury Park in MN also play, and I dont really see any problems with it. I have heard that some of the dealer choose not to play there only because they don't want to mix it up with players who 'might' be tipping them down the road. Case in point from OP.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

I would expect dealers playing in their own room to act accordingly.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

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I would expect dealers playing in their own room to act accordingly.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ha.

Okay, one more. HA!

Many dealers are generally fine as players. However, the biggest offenders of any of the loosely-enforced "rules" in my cardroom are dealers, and there are a lot of them. I call them out on their crap. I'm not very popular.

It makes sense, really. For a bunch of people who were doing this before the boom in their own little podunk rooms, they feel like they have free reign and that etiquette doesn't apply to them. Unfortunately, I take a different tack. This isn't 'Nam, it's Poker; there are rules.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I would expect dealers playing in their own room to act accordingly.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ha.

Okay, one more. HA!

Many dealers are generally fine as players. However, the biggest offenders of any of the loosely-enforced "rules" in my cardroom are dealers, and there are a lot of them. I call them out on their crap. I'm not very popular.

It makes sense, really. For a bunch of people who were doing this before the boom in their own little podunk rooms, they feel like they have free reign and that etiquette doesn't apply to them. Unfortunately, I take a different tack. This isn't 'Nam, it's Poker; there are rules.

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Let me rephrase that. Dealers in my room that play there will act accordingly and remember that what they do reflects upon the casino.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

I was at Suncoast one night. There was a guy at our table bad-mouthing anyone that put a beat on him. Real mean and loud (he was maybe the worst player at the table though). A few days later, I was playing on swing shift (I do most of my playing on grave) and lo and behold....Mr Warmth is dealing. Just like your story. Go figure.


Best Wishes

Howard

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

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What are the different policies concerning playing at the same place you deal?


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If anyone plays where I work and gets out of line in the slightest they get repremanded and lose they're playing privaledges.

As for the debate of "I dont like dealers playing where they work becasue....(insert some insane remark other than behaviour here)"

Guess what, if dealers couldn't play where they work, they'd all play next door or elsewhere and guess what the dealers next door now are playing one casino down and this is absolutely no different than if they were playing in their own room. And btw, those that afraid of dealers because "omg they see so many hands, they know to play us" are just morons. Simple as that. Dealers aren't dealing because they are all aspiring or secretly pro players.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

Well, no reason to belittle those who aren't as tied with the industry and may be intimidated by someone in a uniform.

That said, as a dealer, I can tell you this. Most people suck at poker, and most dealers are people, therefore most dealers suck at poker. But they also think that since they see so many hands they're experts, so they play too hard and too loose and are generally very easy targets. Every now and again you find one who knows what s/he's doing, but the rest bleed chips like crazy.

I don't like to play where I deal for several reasons. The drop is insane for the stakes I can afford. I don't want to be tempted to gamble instead of work, and I work the worst time to play. I don't want to anger my customers. I don't want to feel obligated to over-tip, cutting even more into my earnings. When I want to work on poker instead of work on dealing, I EO and play online.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

This is a common problem with dealers playing in their own room. Most of them are very professional and behave well. But there is that fringe element who try to take advantage of their friendships and working relationships. Some of the worst-behaved players I've seen are dealers. A couple of the Wynn dealers fit into this category, doing the most outrageous things during hands that if any normal player did it would cause trouble (like reaching into main pot, grabbing the muck to see what someone folded, "helping" other players count their chips by reaching into the other players stacks, etc). And a while back I think psandman posted a tale of being outright cheated by a fellow dealer playing in psand's own room where the dealer knew he could get away with cheating a fellow dealer--nobody was gonna call the floor on him for it.

I agree with RR and Photoc that dealers playing in their own rooms MUST be held to at least the same standard as any other player. Doing otherwise creates a very bad image of the room. And in psand's example, I woulda fired that cheating dealer--you CANNOT let go the impression that the room allows their own dealers to cheat, even if they only cheat other dealers.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

Pfap,

Here's a real downer...
One night recently, OTP dealers on swing shift end up eventually getting picked up to deal games... well, floor gets the order wrong and picks up a dealer with a better number and when she finds out that she was picked up incorrectly before some other dealer with a worse number, she claims the "D" word... Discrimination... even though it was just a screw up.

Well, after the room manager found out and so did the ACM, you can imagine the result... no more OTP's on ANY shift (I'm on days), and no more playing even off the clock in our room because of this action.

boooooooo!!!!

Needless to say, grave is taking a big hit on this and games are a bit slower to start on days... and tips are down slightly since there were several players that were always OTP until they got forced in.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

understand that while I would like to see it not happen, showing your cards to others who have already folded is so common that few people even consider it a violation of the rules. So you confused this dealer by objecting to what is commonly accepted practice. Of course he should not have argued with you or given you grief.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Many of the dealers at Canterbury Park in MN also play, and I dont really see any problems with it. I have heard that some of the dealer choose not to play there only because they don't want to mix it up with players who 'might' be tipping them down the road. Case in point from OP.

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Though for a long time i wouldn't play where I worked, I do now do so occassionally, often times as a favor to the room and the dealers in trying to get a game going or keep it going.

That being said I generally find the regulars respond positively to my playing (and no its not cause i'm dumping tons of money. I win a little and lose a little) I think they may tip me a little more now after playing with me, as though its a bond of friendship.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

I was surprised when I was in Vegas this summer and the girl sitting to my right got up, and then sat down in the dealing chair 5 minutes later. I would love to play where I deal, but it's clearly listed as a no-no by the provincial gaming commission.
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

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Some of the worst-behaved players I've seen are dealers.

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In my area, the two absolutely worst behaved players are dealers.

One of them is terribly abusive to the dealers, but is very honest as a player and dealer. He is also smart enough to behave absolutely excellently as a dealer.

The other is an angle-shooting, cheat anyway he can, abusive player. He is also a cheating dealer, doing whatever he can get away with to favor a very few players, mainly some relatives.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

It goes so far at CP that dealers have been disciplined with write-ups and possibly time-off for violating the rules while they play. The cell phone rule comes to mind. Don't remember seeing dealers sweat since it become more strongly enforced either.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

One of my players told me he saw a table full of dealers, in uniform, at circus circus playing. They were just playing for the bad beat, all calling pre-flop then checking everything down. Assuming this is true, I'm shocked that a dealer would do this to his/her players and that the house would allow it.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

The house doesn't care. It's not their money.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

but it's bad customer service

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

Most respectable cardrooms have policies that their employees must well behaved in any other cardroom. I've actually seen a couple of dealers get punished by having to work tournaments for misbehaving in other casinos. I believe the dealers should be able to act however they want if you ask me, it will only hurt their tokes if they act poorly. However, any poker player who knows the rules should not violate them. And any decent dealer understands the basic etiquette and rules of poker. He was out of line, and you should call him on it since you know that he knows very clearly that he is out of line.

Re: Playing at the same place you deal.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was surprised when I was in Vegas this summer and the girl sitting to my right got up, and then sat down in the dealing chair 5 minutes later. I would love to play where I deal, but it's clearly listed as a no-no by the provincial gaming commission.
[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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I'm pretty sure it's a no-no in Missouri as well. I've heard dealers at both Ameristar and Harrah's mention that they play in the other room because they can't play in their own.