200NL Making a stand against a maniac - 77 faces big bet on the river
 

Villain is 32//20/2.6 over 600 hands. I don’t know the guy particularly well, but one thing he does about 85% of the time is to put in over-sized raises, in late position, attacking several limpers or just the blinds. He clearly doesn’t have a big hand every time he does this and (just looking back at my PT data) his range for this move includes T7o and K5s but also the occasional legitimate hand like AK.

As this guy seems to be playing more at my tables, and is getting away with his favourite move far too often, I wanted to find decent a opportunity to make a stand when in position. Ideally, I would like to showdown a winning but marginal hand to make my point but, next best, would simply be to make a stand and win the hand. Comments appreciated on whether that’s a ridiculous thought process in the first place (do players like this even remember who not to try to steal from?) but also on the way this hand went down…


Ongame Poker No Limit Hold'Em, $1/$2 (6 handed) (a couple of players have just left the table).

SB ($202)
BB ($36)
UTG ($42)
UTG+1 ($196)
CO ($381)
Hero/BTN ($237)


Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. 2 folds, Villain raises to $14, Hero raises to $36, 2 folds, Villain calls.

Flop: ($75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $50, Villain calls.

Turn: ($175) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks. Hero checks.

River: ($175) 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Villain bets $100. Hero?

I checked the turn as I felt my only other option was probably to push, which I just didn’t like after being called on the flop. Villain could definitely have a K (and I’m not sure a weak kicker would persuade him to fold) and even a 5. I was hoping for a blank, low card on the river and would probably then have called a reasonable bet on the river. I didn’t like the T, though, or the size of the bet on the river (which had a “please call this” feel to it).

I feel like I’m going to get slaughtered for the way I played this (including the size of the pf raise) but I don’t mind. I can take it… [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Making a stand against a maniac - 77 faces big bet on the river
 

I dont like the 3 bet lite. IMO I think its better to be playing small ball and trap with maniacs then to 3 bet and bloat pots. Pick a better spot, tighten up and stack a donk.

Re: Making a stand against a maniac - 77 faces big bet on the river
 

I would also keep the pot small pre-flop. It makes it much cheaper to call down. Even a maniac likely won't give you much action anyway if you 3-bet and they can't beat your 77 on the flop.

Re: Making a stand against a maniac - 77 faces big bet on the river
 

If you had AQ, would you call this river? 77 is very similar hand to Ahi in this situation.

On the river we only beat Ahi bluffs or something like 22-44, and do you think he calls a 3bet preflop and then calls a flop on a K hi board w/ 22-44 or Ahi?

Since you 3bet preflop and then bet this flop, I really like another bet on the turn. After he calls your flop bet, your hand strength vs his range is pretty crummy, and we basically I think are going to have to turn 77 into a bluff to win this hand. We are never going to extract more value from worse hands w/ 77 here ever, so betting the turn and then checking behind river is viable, as is sometimes 3barrelling river (Although I don't recommend it). The reasons I like another bet on the turn are that unless he has a 5 or a K it's going to be hard for him to continue and he very well could be folding 88-QQ to a turn follow up from us.

I think we stand more to gain in this situation by firing another barrel then we do by checking through and hoping to induce a bluff on the river. Because, so many river cards are going to hit his hand and make it hard to call a river "bluff" and 77 is essentially a very very weak holding in this spot.

Also, if he is the type to float the flop OOP in this spot w/ AHi (which I doubt) why give him a chance to spike a A or a Broadway card on the river?

Again, consdiering the way the hand played up until the turn, I think we need to fire a second barrel here. His range is something liek 88-QQ, KQ-AK, sometimes AQs.

And remember just because he was playing very agressive, doesnt mean he isn't competent or a thinking LAG, and you didn't include anything about your image or if you think he is capable of calling 3bets light or floating flops OOP light. Both of which I suspect he isn't. Even more the reason to double barrel here.

I know that is very jumbled and unorganized, hope it made sense though.

Re: Making a stand against a maniac - 77 faces big bet on the river
 

once again ryan cmu analysis is pretty spot on.

All I can add is I dont really like to 3bet light or bluff these types of players because thye have the mindset that "because im making moves, they are making moves" and it makes it hard to get them off hands.

Re: Making a stand against a maniac - 77 faces big bet on the river
 

So just fold here (and wait for a stronger hand) or just call, keep the pot smaller and then hope to get a favourable flop/board? Probably the latter, I guess.

I also hear what Ryan is saying. It's more or less what I was thinking myself and I was really drawn to double barrelling the turn (probably shoving), but just couldn't find it. I still wonder if that move, even if I lose, has some future value. Or do players like this have no real memory for players who are prepared to make a stand and those who don't?