how about this
 

I raise a bad limper with QJhh, BB is a tag who calls, limper calls.

flop A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
checks to me I bet, bb raises, limper folds, I call

turn 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
bb bets, I call

river 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
bb bets


please rank the three choices.

also if your choice is fold I would be very interested to hear approx ranges for raise/call/fold.

Re: how about this
 

edit: whoops misread hand disregard

Re: how about this
 

F Looks like he has an Ace
C He might do this with MP worse kicker, or a flush draw
R He's unlikely to call a raise with anything you beat or fold anything that beats you.

Re: how about this
 

When the BB bets the turn - if I decided I didn't know what to do on a blank river, I would probably raise the turn. That line (call flop c/r, raise turn) really looks strong. I would expect him to slow down with a weak ace and only 3-bet with hands we can fold to a river blank (and raise a river heart). So I guess I would "FSDR" the turn. That's because I don't know if I would fold this river.

"BB is a TAG" - well if this guy can read hands and he bets this river then we should fold. He has to be pushing us off QQ/KK if he thinks this play is good.

If I'm going to raise, it's the turn. If I'm going to fold or call, it's obv. on the river and I would say it really depends on how i've been playing. Are you very tight jba? What range could I put you on to have called both these streets? I feel like I shouldn't NOT be value betting.

If not, I should be c/r'ing. Is he tricky?

Re: how about this
 

how about some questions from villains perspective:

how low are you 3betting here with pocket pairs?

how are you playing hands like J9/JT here?

how about bad aces like A3?

Re: how about this
 

How are those from villains POV? Nobody 3-bet, right?

Re: how about this
 

[ QUOTE ]
How are those from villains POV? Nobody 3-bet, right?

[/ QUOTE ]


i'm just trying to determine villains range - he probably doesnt have a hand like TT because of preflop is my point.

Re: how about this
 

Yeah we're looking at Ax, Jx, clubs, possible a baby set. What I'm wondering though is what he thinks betting on the river with is good. Say he has JT - does he think betting this river with JT against you is good? What worse hand is calling? What better hand is folding?

The thing is, his flop range and turn range are the same, essentially. People typically don't fold to c/r's for 1 sb so he can't assume that changes anything. When he bets the river, does his range change? I don't know, so I would raise the turn against a wide range. One that I might be ahead of. And one that might not even let him 3-bet the best hand.

But now that we're at the river, the onyl real question is can he read your hand well. On the simplest terms this is most likely a fold.

Re: how about this
 

Is it weird that I think a c/r from BB with Ax is really stupid against Hero's action?

Re: how about this
 

I don't know but my brain hurts whenever I think about ace high flops in these hands. I think I'm just going to start 3-betting the flop with anything.