The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Hilary Clinton may well be the next US President. This is becoming more probable every day and I was contemplating the fallout. Anyway, as I was contemplating this recently, by an unusual coincidence there appeared in the very next edition of the Economist a well-written article about Hilary’s gambit to be the first woman president. See here:
The Comeback Kids

The Clinton political machine is indeed impressive, with lots of money (and plies more coming in), all the best staff, spin-doctors, and the most effective liars in all of American Political History, the Clinton’s themselves. Not to be lost in all this is the megalomania and determination of Hilary to punch out a long-term plan that may just get her what she wants. It will not be what she needs but not being a Confucian that would be completely lost on her.

The Queen Bee may soon have her crown and a cadre of monarchal henchmen in the White House. What would the repercussions be?

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

that sure is alot of words to say "president hilary scares me"

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

I'm kind of curious to see if she makes Bill a part of her administration and if this spawns some kind of spousal addition to term limits. I'm guessing that although it should, it probably won't because it will be to easy to label such efforts as sexist.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

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that sure is alot of words to say "president hilary scares me"

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The post was not about me, but just for your information very little scares me, least of all Queen Bee Hilary.

The OP asked of possible repercussion if Hilary becomes the next President. Let's stay on subject if possible.

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Billy Bob is certainly an interesting part of the whole equation. What official capacity he would play is important and what "unofficial" role and power he would weld is also something of importance and significance. Given Hilary's egomania she would want this to be HER presidency, not something watered down, even by a husband she supposedly loves.

Also, having her Husband on the campaign trail is, at least for now, not hurting her at all. There was a article in The Atlantic a few months back about all this that was also interesting. The Clinton political machine is doing much to have all the ready answers to and the counter attacks in place that will be needed once Hilary wins the nomination and the obvious smear campaign that will then be launched by the Republican Party Hacks.

They are very prepared.

But all that aside, Bill could be an asset in the foreign affairs arena, though at what capacity is hard to guess - Perhaps some ambassador at large position?

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Clinton 42: Peace, prosperity, popularity.

Clinton 44: Peace, prosperity, popularity. Especially in her second term after she's had a chance to do some cleaning up of the damage inflicted on the nation by her predecessor.

Incidentally, I'm not that much of a Hillary fan...

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

I'd expect a lot of empty promises. We wouldn't leave Iraq. Her voting record suggests this, among other things. We won't get universal health care, seeing how insurance companies/pharma companies make ridiculous amounts of money to lobby against it. So basically, it'll be Bush part 2, with a few cute tax hikes just for show.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

No comment except you know that a political system is rotten to the core when a son and wife of former presidents succeed their fathers and husbands.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Here's a timely, on-topic Charles Krauthammer column

A quote:

I could never vote for her, but I (and others of my ideological ilk) could live with her -- precisely because she is so liberated from principle. Her liberalism, like her husband's -- flexible, disciplined, calculated, triangulated -- always leaves open the possibility that she would do the right thing for the blessedly wrong (i.e. self-interested, ambition-serving, politically expedient) reason.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

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No comment except you know that a political system is rotten to the core when a son and wife of former presidents succeed their fathers and husbands.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

John Adams, the second president of the USA, had a son, John Quincy Adams who was the sixth president of the USA. Guess the political system in the USA has been rotten to the core for 200 years.

Apparently you're on record as stating that a woman president of the USA indicates the system is rotten to the core irregardless of her political beliefs and acumen. But I realize you post a lot of the stuff you do to get a response. You've succeeded again.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Her presidency will/would depend a lot on how Congressional elections turn out. If the Republicans have control of one of the Senate and/or House we're likely to see uber gridlock IMO. If the Democrats get control of both the Senate/House she'll be able to enact more of what she wants to do. If she didn't have the husband she has, she wouldn't stand a chance of being elected.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Foreign policy will be better than this admin., domestic policy will be pretty bad. Some sort of universal or on-the-road-to-universal gov't healthcare, rollback of free trade, probably some tax increases for the wealthy, but little real tax reform.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

zeno,

She has mentioned several times that her husband would act as embassador to the world...or something of that nature.

Also, the election is still a year away. A lot can and will happen from now until then.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
John Adams, the second president of the USA, had a son, John Quincy Adams who was the sixth president of the USA. Guess the political system in the USA has been rotten to the core for 200 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically. Read the anti-federalist papers.

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Apparently you're on record as stating that a woman president of the USA indicates the system is rotten to the core irregardless of her political beliefs and acumen. But I realize you post a lot of the stuff you do to get a response. You've succeeded again.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you get that out of what he wrote?

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd expect a lot of empty promises. We wouldn't leave Iraq. Her voting record suggests this, among other things. We won't get universal health care, seeing how insurance companies/pharma companies make ridiculous amounts of money to lobby against it. So basically, it'll be Bush part 2, with a few cute tax hikes just for show.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why so many people use the fact that insurance/pharma companies lobby to indict insurance/pharma companies. If you felt like your wealth is arbitrarily taken, wouldn't you lobby too? Isn't that more an indictment of the system itself (that EVERYBODY lobbies) than of the actors? It suggests that there are real limitations and faults to the democratic system.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
No comment except you know that a political system is rotten to the core when a son and wife of former presidents succeed their fathers and husbands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It could very well be that the family members that followed were indeed the best options at the time.

This is probably not the case however so it shows that the american voter is stupid to the core. The political system can only win for these dynasties if the people choose to vote for them. In the end, you must blame the voter.

natedogg

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
No comment except you know that a political system is rotten to the core when a son and wife of former presidents succeed their fathers and husbands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

I fear that nothing short of complete Armagedon will ensue if she is elected.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

I am at a loss for why so many people are in favor of her. She is for amnesty; she will not get us out of Iraq; she gave Bush the green light against Iraq and now Iran.

The only thing I can think of, that all of those middle class people can be thinking of: lower insurance costs. If she had got what she wanted, anyone making 80k or less, would have free health insurance for their kids, paid for by those who smoke. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Shows you how much net pay means to people. Family insurance is expensive. I guess if I had 3 kids, I'd say let the illegals in, and ship someone else's kids to Iraq/Iran too.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
John Adams, the second president of the USA, had a son, John Quincy Adams who was the sixth president of the USA. Guess the political system in the USA has been rotten to the core for 200 years.

[/ QUOTE ]
Very different world back then. A tiny fraction of the population and a tiny fraction of the economic and business prosperity and a tiny tiny fraction of the current upper and upper middle class. There are 300 million people in the US today, 10 million with IQs over 125, as well as tens of thousands with significant political experience. The fact that the son of a former president becomes the president - with a record of personal failure outside of politics - indicates that nepotism and inside deals have won over the ideals of merit that the US was founded on. And just as importantly, that people don't care. Hilary is a less egregious example - she has an amazing record of self made success, but the probability of both these events occuring in a meritorious system should give you pause.

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently you're on record as stating that a woman president of the USA indicates the system is rotten to the core irregardless of her political beliefs and acumen. But I realize you post a lot of the stuff you do to get a response. You've succeeded again.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have problem with Hilary Clinton - she's a highly accomplished and intelligent person with a fantastic record as senator and in private law practice before then. But like OP, I don't trust her to not be corrupt. There's something flaky about her that has nothing to do with her sex. I got the same vibe from Kerry (who is a Skull & Bones member like Bush & Bush).

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

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This is probably not the case however so it shows that the american voter is stupid to the core. The political system can only win for these dynasties if the people choose to vote for them. In the end, you must blame the voter.
natedogg

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You really think voters are 100% to blame?

Not
http://politicsoffthegrid.files.word...7/07/money.jpg

or


http://nortonlibrary.org/tv.gif


or



http://www.enigmaticparadox.com/imag...raudSept19.jpg

?

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

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zeno,

Also, the election is still a year away. A lot can and will happen from now until then.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I agree with the editors of the Economist [see also a 4-page additional article in the October 6 edition, p 27-30] that it is her election to lose, and, so far, no one charismatic enough, or as well organized, or with the heaps of money needed, has shown up to really challenge this formidable woman. There is of course much negativity still associated with her but it is not insurmountable and a majority of voters are easily swayed by empty rhetoric, trite platitudes, and feel good ideas. Unless she really stumbles and falls into a hole, Hillary has a very good chance of wining.

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Why do you think the conservative base won't rally behind their candidate? They were enough to get a bumbling Bush over the line the second time. The only thing I can see getting Hilary home is the female vote, and I've read (can't find the damn source) that women generally don't vote for women candidates.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
Foreign policy will be better than this admin ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't share your optimism:
Clinton would use violence against Tehran

It boggles my mind that so many democrat voters are letting her get away with this BS.

Maybe it's because so many people base their votes on the really important issues

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No comment except you know that a political system is rotten to the core when a son and wife of former presidents succeed their fathers and husbands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It could very well be that the family members that followed were indeed the best options at the time.

This is probably not the case however so it shows that the american voter is stupid to the core. The political system can only win for these dynasties if the people choose to vote for them. In the end, you must blame the voter.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

Well with voting now going electronic, what's to stop the powers that be from stealing every election ? Bush stole em before, who's to say they won't steal them again ?

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

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But like OP, I don't trust her to not be corrupt. There's something flaky about her that has nothing to do with her sex.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the Economist October 6 issue, p 27:

'But Hillary-hatred is by no means confinded to the right. David Geffen, a Hollywood mogul, gave voice to a widespread feeling on the left when he complained about the Clinton's relationship with the truth. "Everybody in politics lies." he told the New York Times. "But they do it with such ease, its troubling".'


There is much more about this pair of politicians that I find rather slimey. Too Slimy, I mean - As all politicans reek of at least some slimyness. But see Hitchen's book No One Left to Lie Too.

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Voters take 100% of the blame.

In the end, all we have to do is not vote for these people. It is really that simple.


natedogg

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
Her presidency will/would depend a lot on how Congressional elections turn out. If the Republicans have control of one of the Senate and/or House we're likely to see uber gridlock IMO. If the Democrats get control of both the Senate/House she'll be able to enact more of what she wants to do. If she didn't have the husband she has, she wouldn't stand a chance of being elected.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point. One key to Hillary getting the agenda she wishes to impose on all is having a congress that is in her pocket. Whatever legitimate legislation, and the fluffy stuff she has up her sleeve, she wishes to enact may be rubber-stamped by a bamboozled congress. If however not all fall in line or congress is divided a more compromising legislative agenda may be in order.

But to be more specific, would Hillary do anything to help clean up the mess of say Social Security? Or revamp the odious bureaucratic tax code? She will push hard for her pet agendas outlined in the campaign, but those almost always fail to live up to the hype no matter which politican is promoting them.

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think the conservative base won't rally behind their candidate? They were enough to get a bumbling Bush over the line the second time. The only thing I can see getting Hilary home is the female vote, and I've read (can't find the damn source) that women generally don't vote for women candidates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Others here are probably better versed to answer those questions but my off the cuff response is that the Conservative (Republican Party) has little chance to win the Presidency this time around, the reasons I think are obvious. Possibly the only person that could seriously challenge Hillary and salvage and energize the conservative base is Newt, but I could be wrong on that.

-Zeno

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
What would the repercussions be?


[/ QUOTE ]

We would have a president who is pro-war, professes to be a devout Christian, has been proven to be inept in effecting health care reform, and appears to be arrogant without having ever once accomplished anything. What are you worried about? I fully expect everybody who supported Jr. to be her ardent supporter. In fact, if we could get her to dress in dark men's suits and red ties, I doubt if anybody would notice there had been an election.

Always looking on the bright side,

Mack of Sunnybrook Farm

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

My predictions:

-You will see evangelizing by Republicans and Conservatives like never before. Both will be so appalled that they will take political activism to a new level.

-Conservatives may feel so let down by the Republicans being unable to defeat Hillary that they may split and form a new political party. The new political party would doubtless draw supporters from both parties, depending on the platform formulated. This would be the end of the Republicans, possibly the Democrats as well, and supplant the present two party system with a different one.

- There would be endless investigations by Congress. The Democrats will undoubtedly loose control of one or more legislative bodies. The political gridlock will make the present political gridlock look like Mr. Rogers neighborhood.

- Bushhate (TM) will be replaced in the left leaning media by Hillarylove (TM) as the mantra to dominate the news 24/7/365. Meanwhile, the conservative media will incorporate Hillaryhate (TM) as the alternative choice.

- Government will grow, or try to grow exponentially more than Bush has even imagined. The economy will suffer, the misery index will be reborn. People will really internalize the fact that government is not their friend. Government expansion will happen in the face of vehement resistance from people of all political stripes.

- In short, the political apparatus of our civilization would become more disfunctional than it already is and everyone will be sorry.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Her presidency will/would depend a lot on how Congressional elections turn out. If the Republicans have control of one of the Senate and/or House we're likely to see uber gridlock IMO. If the Democrats get control of both the Senate/House she'll be able to enact more of what she wants to do. If she didn't have the husband she has, she wouldn't stand a chance of being elected.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point. One key to Hillary getting the agenda she wishes to impose on all is having a congress that is in her pocket. Whatever legitimate legislation, and the fluffy stuff she has up her sleeve, she wishes to enact may be rubber-stamped by a bamboozled congress. If however not all fall in line or congress is divided a more compromising legislative agenda may be in order.

But to be more specific, would Hillary do anything to help clean up the mess of say Social Security? Or revamp the odious bureaucratic tax code? She will push hard for her pet agendas outlined in the campaign, but those almost always fail to live up to the hype no matter which politican is promoting them.

-Zeno

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as Social Security, I think the baby bond amended to private 401ks is actually Hillary's way to get SS reform in the back door. Social Security is the ultimate sacred cow that politicians in Congress don't want to talk about. I remember watching CSPAN in yesteryear when Mitchell was the majority leader in the Senate and he basically tricked a Republican into stating that he would change SS. After the Republican fell into the trap, Mitchell had a big smile on his face stating how he had always admired the Senators courage and it took courage to propose SS reform. The Republican Senator stated that in no way, no how (loudly at that) was he proposing any kind of change in SS. Congress doesn't want to touch it and take on SS reform directly.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

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In the end, all we have to do is not vote for these people. It is really that simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree in a subtle, but meaningful way. You not only have to "not vote for these people," but you also have to vote for someone else. If all you do is not show up (i.e. not-vote) you just cede more power to those who do.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

It would be the defining moment when the US started down the road to a pseudo socialist state, very similiar to what exists all over Western Europe.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
What would the repercussions be?

[/ QUOTE ]She is driven by no real agenda other than the quest for power. She won't do much as president. The only real consequence is that the right will get to feel what the left has felt about Bush. The right wing media is going to go berserk and it will be fun to watch.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

More protection for the environment.
Some form of Universal Health care.
Lower taxes for the middle class.
More emphasis on alternative and renewable energy.
Increased fuel efficiency by car makers.
Repeal of some tax breaks for big oil and the rich.
More funds for stem cell research.
Maybe the appointment of pro-choice Supreme Court Justices.
Support for reasonable gun control.

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
No comment except you know that a political system is rotten to the core when a son and wife of former presidents succeed their fathers and husbands.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno about that...it seems to say more for the american people's love of a monarchy than the rotten-ness of a political system.

it would say far more about its rottenness if all of a sudden bush was president for a 3rd term abolishing term limits or something like that...

i see what you're saying though, i just don't think "rotten" is the word i'd chooose.

maybe self aggrandizing or shameless??

Barron

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

Its hard to say really what kind of agenda she will pursue
in Iraq and domestically, since her statements and congress votes are driven by political calculus instead of true belief. Why did she vote for the war resolution? "If we go in there and find WMD's and pull off this nation building thing in Iraq, its over for me to be president if I vote no.
If the war becomes a obvious mistake, I can still move to the antiwar camp as time passes and events unfold".

The same thing applies now as she campaigns. If she actually attains the highest office, then she might really pursue her ideology. I'm not as worried as some about her expanding government a great deal like Bush has, I mean how much more can the fed gov eat up our GDP/pile on debt before Us treasury bond rates start to go up putting an end to that nonsense.

What would suck with pres Clinton is she would not deal with whether we should raise Social Security taxes, cut benefits NOW before the necessary changes become necessarily much more drastic later. LOL actually no one except Paul would deal with that.

Whatching all the neocons, Bush supporters squirm would be great. America's response to your time in the sun: President Hillary Clinton

well done.... well done....

Re: The Queen Bee Wins the White House: It is almost a Lock
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the end, all we have to do is not vote for these people. It is really that simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree in a subtle, but meaningful way. You not only have to "not vote for these people," but you also have to vote for someone else. If all you do is not show up (i.e. not-vote) you just cede more power to those who do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I meant "vote for someone else". Good catch. I'm not one of those who thinks you should not vote and that voting is a worthless exercise. And that's why in the end I blame the voters for all our problems.

natedogg