live $6/12 - 2nd nuts - when to stop raising
 

live $6/12 table not too much action. a few TAG, some loose-passive. villain is new to table.

i limp after 2 callers in middle position with K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

5 players to the flop.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i bet out, villain insta-calls behind me, 2 others call.

turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

i bet, villain insta-calls, 1 other call.

river: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

i bet, villain raises, other player folds, i 3-bet, villain 4-bets, i 5-bang, villain 6-bangs, i call with 2nd nuts.

only KK beats me, and who the hell plays KK like that, right? should i ever stop betting here? what about pf?

Re: live $6/12 - 2nd nuts - when to stop raising
 

pf is good.If suited raise.

I think I'd go all the way with this one.If he waits til the river to raise w KK. Thats poker.He's probably got the nut flush and thinks your the sucker.Of course,after all that he probably did have it, sorry.

Re: live $6/12 - 2nd nuts - when to stop raising
 

I have never seen a 6-bet river where the 2nd nuts is winner. That said, it's nearly impossible to believe villain has KK here.

Also, remember that from HIS perspective, KK isn't the nuts, JJ is. And he should start to fear that you have it.

When he's raising the river, is he insta-raising? Usually, after 3-4 bets go in, there's a long pause as the players look again at their cards, study the board (just to make sure they aren't missing anything), and often count on their fingers to make sure there aren't straight flushes available (not making this up...the "finger counting" tell is very reliable that villain does NOT have a SF).

If there has been no pause, I would pop again. Even with KK, villain may just call. If he raises, I call the ocho.

Re: live $6/12 - 2nd nuts - when to stop raising
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have never seen a 6-bet river where the 2nd nuts is winner. That said, it's nearly impossible to believe villain has KK here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have, but the aggressor was an idiot. I also know players who would play kings this way (they thinking would go: can't raise preflop because an ace will flop, have to slowplay the flop with the nuts, oops can't raise the turn because someone might have a straight, I have a full house so let's rock).

I actually might be a bit shocked if the villain has a flush here. I find KK a bit more believable.

Re: live $6/12 - 2nd nuts - when to stop raising
 

I keep on going.