Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real)
 

After my ridiculous downswing that lasted forever, I decided it was time to use my Canadian-ness for the greatest purpose: Playing against Europeans.

So I moved as much money as I could onto the Europeanest site I could find, and then took the rest of my money offline (minus a few K on stars/FTP for any good flipping opportunities, etc). I chose Eurobet.

Well, things went well there for a while, but then I noticed a problem with pokertracker. Some hands I copy/pasted into notepad during my sessions to review weren't showing up in PT. I bugged Pokertracker Pat about this for a while, and finally decided that the problem was I had to restart pokertracker each time I imported new hands from Eurobet. This was really annoying since it meant that I could no longer use auto-import w/PA HUD accurately, but whatever.

Then a while later, I noticed that I was up a lot more money on pokertracker than I was in my cashier. I thought this was weird, and tried to figure out what the problem was, but all the hands in the Eurobet database file seemed to be uploading properly into Pokertracker. This, as you may imagine, was pretty unnerving.

So I checked out Eurobet's software, and it seemed they had a "session browser," which was their own sort of mini-pokertracker, built straight into the software. I thought, "Excellent, now I can get to the bottom of this!"

But it was not to be:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2...tamentsfy3.jpg

Yes, it thinks I had a four-hour session where I played 35k hands and made $43.6k.


So I decided it was time to contact customer support. Eurobet has a special customer support system in which you send messages through their client, rather than through email.

Here is a quick summary of my experience with their customer support:

First, I sent them a message explaining my situation, and asking for a complete HH file so that I could figure out wtf was going on. Their response was completely retarded. So I sent a message back, explaining why their response was retarded. Their response to that was to wait while they forwarded my message to another department. A week later, I asked them why I still hadn't heard from their other department. They said they still hadn't heard from the other department. Two days later, I got pretty fed up and sent them a message threatening to take my money off their site. So the "other department" finally responded, saying basically the exact same retarded nothing that I got the first time. So I kindly explained to the second department why their response was retarded, and their response was again, retarded.

Finally, I got very angry and said that if I didn't get an answer that made a semblance of sense, and that involved my getting some kind of HH so I could find out why my account seemed to be short thousands of dollars, I was going to withdraw my money and file a complaint somewhere. Their response was the same retarded nonsense.

So I finished clearing my deposit bonus (ldo), and now I'm cashing out everything. Where can I file a complaint about this? Eurobet is part of the Ongame network. Is there some place where I can send a complaint about this issue to higher-ups in the Ongame network? If I send a complaint about this to whoever licenses the Ongame network, will it do anything?


FYI

I started with $7,332.50 (5k Euros, max buyin), and now have $14,302.35 in my account. That means I made:

$6969.85, according to Eurobet. Pokertracker says:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6...etstatsgc3.jpg


CLIFFNOTES: Money seems to be missing from Eurobet poker account according to pokertracker, Eurobet software completely incapable of handling this issue, and customer support basically ignores every request for a complete HH file.

Also: Eurobet also has the most monkey tilt-inducing software I've ever used. For example, to access the rebuy option you have to be sitting out. So to rebuy you have to quickly sit out, click cashier, rebuy, and sit back in between hands and hope you don't miss your button or something. To make matters worse, a "LEAVE" button is right below the "sit out" button which you have to click super fast all the time, and that button just immediately closes the table (and opening a table takes like 30 seconds) and gives up your seat. I've never tilted so hard because of software problems in my life.

PPS: I also cleared a $600 bonus, so Eurobet seems to be over $2,000 off.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

Also, I have a word document with the transcripts of all the messages to/from support. Anyone know how I can host it? The Eurobet Support replies are pretty lol.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

Is it the conversion rate?

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

YOu do realize that poker tracker isn't always accurate right? Sometimes if you leave a table too quickly the file doesnt get sent your computer, if you leave mid way through a hand, the file doesnt get sent to your computer, etc.-- this is where the lost money is most likely.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

The money was converted initially (5k Euros became 7.3k USD), but the balance remained in USD after that. So no.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
YOu do realize that poker tracker isn't always accurate right? Sometimes if you leave a table too quickly the file doesnt get sent your computer, if you leave mid way through a hand, the file doesnt get sent to your computer, etc.-- this is where the lost money is most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm aware. And I send Eurobet messages about it (my statistics file is probably busted, send me a new one), and their response is "We like ponies".

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

i think pokertracker just doesnt import all the hands. I think its a known problem at ongame. I dont play there all that much and my pokertracker is only off by very little but i got a friend, who is up >50k the last 3months with pokertracker showing him to be breakeven and missing an enourmous amount of hands.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YOu do realize that poker tracker isn't always accurate right? Sometimes if you leave a table too quickly the file doesnt get sent your computer, if you leave mid way through a hand, the file doesnt get sent to your computer, etc.-- this is where the lost money is most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm aware. And I send Eurobet messages about it (my statistics file is probably busted, send me a new one), and their response is "We like ponies".

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol's, Post the original Eurobet messages, I need a laugh
thanks

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think pokertracker just doesnt import all the hands. I think its a known problem at ongame. I dont play there all that much and my pokertracker is only off by very little but i got a friend, who is up >50k the last 3months with pokertracker showing him to be breakeven and missing an enourmous amount of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

THANKS FOR THE UPDATE

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

please don't play on ongame, we should all boycott them for their EXTREMELY horrible software which they aren't even trying to fix.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
YOu do realize that poker tracker isn't always accurate right? Sometimes if you leave a table too quickly the file doesnt get sent your computer, if you leave mid way through a hand, the file doesnt get sent to your computer, etc.-- this is where the lost money is most likely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm aware. And I send Eurobet messages about it (my statistics file is probably busted, send me a new one), and their response is "We like ponies".

[/ QUOTE ]
Lol's, Post the original Eurobet messages, I need a laugh
thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really that funny, but here they are:
[i]

Recipient: Returning money to you Date: 17-11-07 23:21
Subject: Account discrepancy
I cannot seem to find the "view statement" option in my account options menu, and there seems to be a discrepancy between my real money balance, and the money my records tell me I should have.

According to my records, I deposited approximately $7,700 on November 8, 2007. I am not sure of the exact figure, because the record of my deposit is in CAD, and I'm not sure what the exchange rate was at that exact time.

According to my hand histories, I am up a total of $5,644.85 USD on your site. This means that my account balance should be approximately $13,344.85. However, my real money balance seems to be $11,499.

If the discrepancy is in my hand histories (and I am not up $5,644.85), then I request you send me via e-mail a complete HH of every hand I've played on your site. If the discrepancy is something else, please let me know ASAP.

Thank you,
A. Max LOLastname

PS: Where is the view statement page?



Sender: Returning money to you Date: 18-11-07 10:02
Subject: RE: Account discrepancy
Dear Mr LOLastname,

Thank you for your message.

I would like to inform you that according to your Statements, which you can see on the main eurobet website when you login into your account under the menu Account Options, on the 8th November you deposited 5000 EUROS which you transfered into the poker: $7,332.50. Please be advised that since then you have not deposited any more money, therefore the figures you refer to reflect your winnings but also include the money you have used to play (recycling of winnings). Therefore, this is the reason why your balance is $11,499.10.

If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact either myself or the Eurobet Customer Services team.

Kind regards,
Pelagia
Eurobet Customer Services



Recipient: Returning money to you Date: 18-11-07 23:38
Subject: RE: Account discrepancy
Hi,

$7332.50 + $5,644.85 = $12,977.35

So there is still a fairly large discrepancy. Could you please tell me where that discrepancy is coming from? Please send me a file with my complete hand histories at your site so that I can check if my records are inaccurate.

If my records are accurate, and I have in fact won $5,644.85 on your site, I would very much appreciate knowing why my money seems to have disappeared.

Thanks,
A. Max LOLastname



Sender: Returning money to you Date: 18-11-07 23:38
Subject: RE: RE: Account discrepancy
Dear Mr. LOLastname,

Thank you for your message.

Your request has been forwarded to our trading department.

If you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact either myself or the customer services team again and we will be happy to help you.

Kind regards,
Vangelis
Eurobet Customer Services.



Recipient: Returning money to you Date: 22-11-07 21:55
Subject: RE: RE: Account discrepancy
Hello,

I have yet to hear from your trading department. What is happening?

Thanks,
A. Max LOLastname



Sender: Returning money to you Date: 22-11-07 21:55
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Account discrepancy
Dear Mr. LOLastname,

Thank you for your message.

We would like to inform you that we did not receive any asnswer from the relevant department yet.
We will contact you back as soon as we will recieive a confirmation.

If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact either myself or a member of the Customer Service Team.

Kind Regards
Claudia
Gala Coral Eurobet Customer Service.



Recipient: Returning money to you Date: 26-11-07 08:12
Subject: RE: RE: RE: Account discrepancy
I'm going to have to move my money to a different site if I don't feel that my money is safe with your company. I implore you to respond adequately to my initial complaint in the immediate future.



Sender: Returning money to you Date: 26-11-07 08:11
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: Account discrepancy
Dear Mr LOLastname,

Thank you for your message.

Please find in the following two messages your poker account statements.

2007-11-08 00:00 Signup $0.00

2007-11-08 00:00 Real money signup $0.00

2007-11-08 14:02 Deposit $7,332.50 $7,332.50
this continues and lists about 300 account balances.....



Recipient: Customer Service Date: 26-11-07 08:52
Subject: RE:
Hi,

Would it be at all possible to have a complete hand history sent to my email address, preferably in .txt form?

Thanks,
A. Max LOLastname



Sender: Customer Service Date: 26-11-07 08:52
Subject: RE: RE:
Dear Mr LOLastname,

Thank you for your message.

We are sorry to inform you that this we can not send by email any personal information of our clients for security reasons. The hand histories you may find them at your statistics file of the poker software.

If you require any further assistance,
please do not hesitate to contact either myself or the customer services team again and we will be happy to help you.

Kind regards,
Lucas
Eurobet customer services.




Recipient: Customer Service Date: 27-11-07 10:54
Subject: RE: RE:
To whom it may concern,

The session browser in your software tells me that I am up tens of thousands of dollars, and is clearly wrong. It tells me, for example, that on 11/13/2007 I played over 35,000 hands and netted over $43,000.

Pokertracker (a program which can be found at www.pokertracker.com), analyzes the user statistics file and tells me that I've made more than your records tell me I have.

I need a way to:

a) Accurately record my results for personal and tax reasons

b) Check that I am in fact receiving the correct funds in my account based on the hands I played.

Every time I've contacted support about this problem, I've received absurdly unsatisfactory answers. For example, I requested that a complete log of my hand histories on Eurobet be sent to my e-mail account. Your response was that you couldn't send the files I needed, without a reasonable explanation why ("for security reasons" does not make much sense, as every other site I've ever played on allows this), and without suggestion of a reasonable alternative.

As you can see from my history, I am a very high-volume player. I like Eurobet but this lack of adequate customer service is completely unacceptable. Review my issue and respond HELPFULLY or I will be forced to withdraw from Eurobet and file a complaint with the appropriate parties.

I do not doubt that my account has been correctly credited for the hands I've played, as I suspect that the program I use to analyze the SQL Lite file and/or the file itself are full of bugs, but I absolutely need a way to review a correct and complete hand history, and hopefully determine what is wrong with my database file.

Thank You,

A. Max LOLastname



Sender: Customer Service Date: 27-11-07 10:54
Subject: RE: RE: RE:
Dear Mr LOLastname,

Thank you for your message.

Please be advised that you can find all of your hand history in the statistics folder. You need to have enabled statistics for this feature to work. Regarding poker related software we would like to inform you that Eurobet can not rely on the results shown by a third party program as it is not officialy supported.

All of your poker statelines have already been sent to you.

If you require any further assistance,
please do not hesitate to contact either myself or the customer services team again and we will be happy to help you.

Kind regards,
Lucas
Eurobet customer services.

Aaaaand I stab myself in the eyeball with a kebab. Seriously, is there somewhere I can send a formal complain to higher-ups about this?

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
please don't play on ongame, we should all boycott them for their EXTREMELY horrible software which they aren't even trying to fix.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you play there? how the FK do i cash out? awrg32r5g82g

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

Where's the part about the ponies?

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Where's the part about the ponies?

[/ QUOTE ]

that's the one where I ask them four questions and they respond by correcting me on my deposit estimate.

edit: and your avatar just made me want to crank one out and go to bed so goodnight everyone

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

okay I didn't laugh once. GL getting your HH's/ moneys back cowpig

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

You should change your title to: Ongame Network ... Also, you should had posted this at the "Internet Gambling" forum to get more serious answers.

PokerTracker doesn't "track" correctly ongame once you are playing +2 tables. So forget about that statistics.

Also, from time to time some money is not credited to your account and is supposedly given back to you when they make the balance. Also, sometimes when you go out of a table it takes some seconds/minutes to register the money in your balance.

Son, in brief, is quite sketchy. Right now I'm waiting for 460$ who disappeared from my account the last time their network froze.

I've been playing there for several months without any big problems, but all of this creates some uneasiness to play there.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

wait umm, you think its more likely that the poker site has stolen money from its players during sessions without getting noticed than the possibility that PT messed up somewhere?

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

I often found that if I quit a table the second I got stacked then PT would not get a complete hand history.

Think about it. I would bet this is your problem.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

The reason for your problem is that Ongame software writes hand histories to your hard drive quite slowly. this basically means that if you 4-6 table for 2 hours you might need to let the software and PT run for half an hour (End of your session) without playing so PT can collect all the hands.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I decided it was time to use my Canadian-ness for the greatest purpose:


[/ QUOTE ]

After I realized this was nothing about back bacon or tuques I gave up.

Moink.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

As one who gets frustrated in situations like these, I got a good laugh out of those emails, hahaha

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
wait umm, you think its more likely that the poker site has stolen money from its players during sessions without getting noticed than the possibility that PT messed up somewhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

Pokerroom software completely messes up the stats if you use the wait-list trick to play more than 4 tables. At least that was the situation when I played there like a year ago.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

I must be the one to inform you that there is a rumor going around that you are actually Stuckinpigh- and that it is the intention of every poker site to doomswitch you until the amount AP made in restitution has been extracted for your winnings. No amount of protest or Emails to support will fix your situation-there is just one solution-My cousin Idi.
Transfer 5K USD to my agent Grimmstar on FTP. When your situation has been rectified my agent will signal you by sitting in and playing poker again. There is no need for you to rail his tables waiting for this-just keep an eye out for the deluge of threads saying that Grimmstar is playing again.

Best wishes, Idi's cuz

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[x] F*ck Canada

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

lol, I love awful support emails.

I suggest you just straight up cash out and look for a eurofish site with a large sportsbook behind it, like Betfair or Ladbrokes.

It's the over-polite brown-nosed writing that tilts me when I deal with support.. where's the humanity!?

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerroom software completely messes up the stats if you use the wait-list trick to play more than 4 tables. At least that was the situation when I played there like a year ago.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can play a lot of tables at pokerroom now.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

ongame owes my boy 30k from 15 months ago

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

This is a common issue if youre playing at ongame network. Dont worry, the moneys all right but the software is the worst one out there. Those stats files never shows correct (as you can see from the hand viewer) and some hands are always missing especially if youre multitabling 4+ tables for a long session.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

Yeah. If they keep referring to the inacurrate hand histories, just go with that. If they have you up 30K, then your up 30 K. Write them a senseless but impeccably polite e-mail suggesting that you like ponies as well.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to inform you that according to your Statements, which you can see on the main eurobet website when you login into your account under the menu Account Options, on the 8th November you deposited 5000 EUROS which you transfered into the poker: $7,332.50. Please be advised that since then you have not deposited any more money, therefore the figures you refer to reflect your winnings but also include the money you have used to play (recycling of winnings). Therefore, this is the reason why your balance is $11,499.10.

[/ QUOTE ]


aahhaahah

ps. dont put any more money into the poker, in fact I would recommend taking some money out of the poker

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[x] Probably Poker-Trackers fault

http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/347...9327933_rs.jpg

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

Dude its obv PT's fault, PT always errors on at least 5% of imported ongame HH's.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dude its obv PT's fault, PT always errors on at least 5% of imported ongame HH's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, i second that and this is true for any ongame skin. If you often leave the table right after you lose a big pot, it won't count in PT.

5% of all other hands also sounds about right. Look at your PT error logs, you'll probably see thousands of hands in there. Usually, it says PlayerX didn't have any action pre-flop or stuff like that.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dude its obv PT's fault, PT always errors on at least 5% of imported ongame HH's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, i second that and this is true for any ongame skin. If you often leave the table right after you lose a big pot, it won't count in PT.

5% of all other hands also sounds about right. Look at your PT error logs, you'll probably see thousands of hands in there. Usually, it says PlayerX didn't have any action pre-flop or stuff like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

When I played ONgame, when I'd review in PT, I'd have HHs where everyone folded to the button, total pot was $.50, and the rake was $3. Email my raw data to Pat. He looked at it and said it wasn't PT's fault--the raw history from Ongame showed the $3 rake on hands with no action.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
ongame owes my boy 30k from 15 months ago

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa... you should do something about that.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, in brief, is quite sketchy. Right now I'm waiting for 460$ who disappeared from my account the last time their network froze.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just got the money back. But got the worst session of my life ... destiny? riggedness? [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

AHAHAHAHAHA WELCOME TO ONGAME WHERE THE HANDS DONT IMPORT, THE 60-5-0s MOVE UP CUZ THEY WIN TOO MUCH, SUPPORT USES SEAGULLS TO SEND MESSAGES TO PAYMENTS, MONEY TAKES A DAY TO GO FROM THE TABLE TO BACK IN YOUR BALANCE, TABLES CLOSE RANDOMLY (USUALLY DURING BIG POTS) IF YOU PLAY MORE THAN 6, CARDS DISSAPEAR, POTS STAY IN THE MIDDLE FOR 2 HANDS, LOBBY FREEZES, YOU CANT JOIN A TABLE WITH AN OPEN SEAT BECAUSE YOU ARENT ON THE LIST BUT NO ONE IS SO U CANT JOIN THE LIST, HYACHAHCACHAHCA, ENJOY YOUR STAY.

Re: Beat: Online poker rigged? (for real this time)
 

oh and sometimes when i try to bet it will just keep moving the slider back to 0 like some sick joke till i time down and have to check. thats about all i can think of for now.