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-   -   2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=557224)

PorkPieHat 11-30-2007 03:09 PM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973643
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 2h 5c 6s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 62 167 499 0 96 371 9 0.214
Qs Kc Kd Jh 172 468 198 0 0 0 0 0.480
6s 5c Ah 2h 27 31 635 0 371 96 9 0.305

Ok, minor difference here, still sucks IMO.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973645
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 4d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 69 206 454 6 126 0 387 0.410
Qs Kc Kd Jh 133 451 215 0 0 0 0 0.438
8s 3c 4d Ah 2 3 657 6 0 48 387 0.151

Little better here but still sucky.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973648
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 3d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 216 221 445 0 521 0 9 0.574
Qs Kc Kd Jh 102 408 258 0 0 0 0 0.383
8s 3c 3d Ah 16 37 629 0 0 120 9 0.043

Now we go from 50/50 to 60/40. Still pretty much the best you're gonna see imo.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973649
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc 8d qs jh - ah 2d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 97 230 436 0 158 355 0 0.309
Qs Kc 8d Jh 102 331 335 0 0 0 0 0.325
8s 3c 2d Ah 67 105 561 0 355 58 0 0.366

OK, if 2 pr was Dave's read then he is still a dog with no fold equity.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973655
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc 8d qs jh -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 309 309 511 0 630 0 0 0.593
Qs Kc 8d Jh 157 511 309 0 0 0 0 0.407

Again, 60/40 at best.

I don't see this ('this' being the correction of my earlier moronity) changing my opinion on call/fold. The interesting thing is how the spade draw only adds 10% equity to the first couple of sims. To be a fav in this spot vs anyone reasonable you need to have the only live low draw, which I don't see happening often enough to be profitable.

Mendacious 11-30-2007 03:36 PM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
[ QUOTE ]
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973643
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 2h 5c 6s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 62 167 499 0 96 371 9 0.214
Qs Kc Kd Jh 172 468 198 0 0 0 0 0.480
6s 5c Ah 2h 27 31 635 0 371 96 9 0.305

Ok, minor difference here, still sucks IMO.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973645
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 4d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 69 206 454 6 126 0 387 0.410
Qs Kc Kd Jh 133 451 215 0 0 0 0 0.438
8s 3c 4d Ah 2 3 657 6 0 48 387 0.151

Little better here but still sucky.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973648
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 3d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 216 221 445 0 521 0 9 0.574
Qs Kc Kd Jh 102 408 258 0 0 0 0 0.383
8s 3c 3d Ah 16 37 629 0 0 120 9 0.043

Now we go from 50/50 to 60/40. Still pretty much the best you're gonna see imo.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973649
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc 8d qs jh - ah 2d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 97 230 436 0 158 355 0 0.309
Qs Kc 8d Jh 102 331 335 0 0 0 0 0.325
8s 3c 2d Ah 67 105 561 0 355 58 0 0.366

OK, if 2 pr was Dave's read then he is still a dog with no fold equity.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973655
pokenum -o8 as 9s 4h 5h - kc 8d qs jh -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As 9s 5h 4h 309 309 511 0 630 0 0 0.593
Qs Kc 8d Jh 157 511 309 0 0 0 0 0.407

Again, 60/40 at best.

I don't see this ('this' being the correction of my earlier moronity) changing my opinion on call/fold. The interesting thing is how the spade draw only adds 10% equity to the first couple of sims. To be a fav in this spot vs anyone reasonable you need to have the only live low draw, which I don't see happening often enough to be profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

The way I read this, it is still a borderline decision. This would be dependent on the style you were playing and what range you think people would be shoving with.

SapphireMoon 11-30-2007 06:49 PM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
Sorry can't avoid mentioning pre-flop selection.
Interesting predicaments.

Hand 1: Shouldn't have been in the pot period much less call a re-raise but what's done is done. But since you're in. I like the pot bet on flop but MP2 another limper / caller of massive preflop raise is the aggressor here. 78 unlikely for the made st8 (not totally out as he made an isolation play to move Button out) but I suspect that MP2 might have AQKJ for a massive re-draw or Ax10 10. You left out what the Button did. Two opponents or one. Eh, either way I would fold.

Hand 2: Love the pockets.
I would have re-raised on flop - don't get greedy isolate UTG - or maybe take it down now. You have nut flush draw and decent low cards. At this point there are no st8 draws. What a sweet flop for your hand. The all-in and re-raises are often A2-ers (maybe a set but silly re-raises with lows and flush draws possibilities). So PUSH PUSH PUSH.

My two cents. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Mendacious 11-30-2007 07:27 PM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
A little more thought on hand 2>

I think you have to assume that UTG has a high hand that will beat you unless you hit your flush AND I would suspect that your low-- if it comes probably is not good-- and even if it is good against UTG, it might not come. I think you have to treat this hand almost as you would a high only hand, and I think UTG has practically priced you out of the hand.

Certainly forgivable if you call, but I think fold is probably more correct.

davebreal 11-30-2007 09:15 PM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
good discussion so far

as far as hand 2 goes, nobody has mentioned that UTG could very easily have AA2x or AA4x, another hand that I'm a dog to.

SapphireMoon 11-30-2007 10:47 PM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
Hmmm... good point, about being priced out given that flop bet was just cold called instead of being re-raised.

Preflop raiser did pot bet flop - Some people bet their A2 draws too heavily though. As you and Dave mentioned -- probably AA2x. In this hand I'm not really worried about UTG's pot bet per se. This is why I advocate raising this flop such that BB is priced out to ensure iffy backup low cards odds increase.


So, in retrospect, given the way it was bet a fold is probably best but if a re-raise was made by Hero a call is justified.

I suspect that the BB is the one with pocket Kings for trips as he did a check raise all -in.

Omaha8sPoker 12-02-2007 03:33 AM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
Hand 1: I misread this one the first time I looked...I think with you betting into the MP2 and he raises that big(and he wasn't the preflop raiser) you're in deep [censored]...Would your opponent play a mid-wrap?? I can't see any reason to play this one any further...Just doing some gorilla math in my head, I think the best you could hope for here is to be even money and I don't think your low is worth [censored] against what his range is...Hell 65 has you beat for low...
Hand 2: Toughie...I think Mend said it was mood dependent...I'd say the same thing...If I felt like gambooling I'd shove here...I'd have to be running like the sun to do that though...I could really see UTG popping it to protect AA2/AA4/AA5 against what he perceives to be a flush draw with no A2 by you...Tough spot, but I think you gotta muck it...

davebreal 12-02-2007 03:58 AM

Re: 2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hell 65 has you beat for low...

[/ QUOTE ]

does not compute.


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