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-   -   How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long) (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=556635)

Al_Capone_Junior 11-29-2007 03:30 AM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
Bullpucky happens. I've had the same thing happen to me. If the dealer is just a schmuck who doesn't give a damn about poker, who sits around, waiting to get tipped, don't tip for a while.

If there were extenuating circumstances (floor distracting them, hidden cards, quiet verbal bet) then consider is this dealer conscientious, careful and always trying to improve? If so, and it was purely an accident, let them slide.

I have ways to ensure all action is complete before I burn and turn, thus I've only ever done this twice, both times with someone hiding their cards. Some dealers do this virtually every day. Some people, like me, care about poker. Some don't, they just wanna get tipped.

Spread your tip money around according to who deserves it. But remember, dealers are human, even the best make mistakes occasionally. Plus, it's much much harder than it looks.

mordecaibrown 11-29-2007 04:19 AM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
I'm reading these b.s. threads too much lately......
Dude if you don't tip then it's your business.

If you are the "professional" that you claim to be please let me ask you one question.
Why aren't you handling the situation like a professional?

By the way moderator---this should be locked down....as stated above.
Most of you are the ones who like to read all the flaming anyway but that's another post all in itself.
Many props to Al JR who has the right idea.
I'd love to sit in your game any day.

pfapfap 11-29-2007 04:28 AM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
But it can ONLY come on the river. "1 out twice" is better then "1 out once".

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, well, crap happens. It's the best solution for a bad situation.

[ QUOTE ]
The card room's procedure is what is retarded, if I read it correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]
The card room's procedure is absolutely standard almost everywhere.

I would have no problem just reshuffling entirely, but the reason you put out the woulda-been river as the new turn is to placate the superstitious, of whom there are countless in a cardroom. Yes, knowledge of the card does change things somewhat, but oh well, whaddaya gonna do. Chances are equal that it'd hurt or help everybody involved.

Rick Nebiolo 11-29-2007 06:23 AM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have ways to ensure all action is complete before I burn and turn, thus I've only ever done this twice, both times with someone hiding their cards. Some dealers do this virtually every day. Some people, like me, care about poker. Some don't, they just wanna get tipped.

Spread your tip money around according to who deserves it. But remember, dealers are human, even the best make mistakes occasionally. Plus, it's much much harder than it looks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points Al.

I usually have to stop a dealer from burning and turning too early about twice a month. If I'm acting last the dealer usually isn't paying attention since I tend to make my checks and bets in a straight-forward manner. At the same time I won't act out of turn so sometimes the dealer is in a hurry to move the game along and assumes I checked the button before the action is really on me. So unfortunately I have to be ready to call "time" with vehemence in order to protect my action.

Note that acting last when its checked to the type of player who doesn't make his action clear opens up a possible angle. With a sloppy dealer an unethical player can do nothing when the action is on him and maybe the dealer thinks he checked and will burn and turn. If the button gets the card he wants he says nothing. If he doesn't he can say "hey, I didn't act" and call for a ruling. He'll usually get another chance at a card he wants (or avoid a card he doesn't want).

~ Rick

ptartaglio 11-29-2007 07:29 AM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
Flytrap did the dealer rap the table, if the dealer did and you didn't stop the dealer you should blame yourself. This is a common dealer mistake. Players can protect the game by stopping the dealer. All dealers should tap the table before dealing the next card. It gives the player enough time to stop the dealer. You sound like a newbie, this is gonna happen over and over again. Sometimes it will hurt you and sometimes it will help you. Get used to it.

SNOWBALL 11-29-2007 11:02 AM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
besides slowing the game down, I would have no complaint if the dealer did this every single time I was in a pot. It doesn't give you a disadvantage, so who cares?

MicroBob 11-29-2007 12:16 PM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a story about how a dealer actually cost me $200:

I make a flush on a board of 2d3c5d4sTd. The pot is $100 I'm OTB and shove for $200. Guy across the table thinks for a while and finally says "call" but he moves his cards forward slightly (there was another player left to act). Within a second the dealer has his cards in the muck. The guy explains that he had a 6, he said call, blah, blah, blah. He is pissed and starts going off on the dealer. Not only did I tip him, but I showed my the other player my flush.

As a poker professional you should understand that things like this happen. If you can't stand dealer errors try playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]


This one confuses me.
If the player said call then isn't it possible to retrieve the cards and hold him to that call?
I guess if he insta-mucked them and scooped up the board cards, etc it would be too late to do anything and perhaps that's what happened

RR 11-29-2007 12:55 PM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here's a story about how a dealer actually cost me $200:

I make a flush on a board of 2d3c5d4sTd. The pot is $100 I'm OTB and shove for $200. Guy across the table thinks for a while and finally says "call" but he moves his cards forward slightly (there was another player left to act). Within a second the dealer has his cards in the muck. The guy explains that he had a 6, he said call, blah, blah, blah. He is pissed and starts going off on the dealer. Not only did I tip him, but I showed my the other player my flush.

As a poker professional you should understand that things like this happen. If you can't stand dealer errors try playing online.

[/ QUOTE ]


This one confuses me.
If the player said call then isn't it possible to retrieve the cards and hold him to that call?
I guess if he insta-mucked them and scooped up the board cards, etc it would be too late to do anything and perhaps that's what happened

[/ QUOTE ]

If the dealer gets his hands on the cards they should be in the muck in under a second.

F0rtysxity 11-29-2007 01:00 PM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
There is a fun sort of Destiny belief in many gamblers (note I do not include professional poker players in this group). I hear it loudest with the Blackjack players. They'll complain about a player at the table who doesn't know what he's doing. Hitting when he should be passing or passing when he should be hitting. This in turn screws up the order the cards are supposed to come out in or would have come out in and screws up the game and causes everyone to lose.

Doyle says all the great players have 'some gamble' to em. When he says that I feel like he is talking about the same mentality, that kind of destiny in gambling mentality?

Willy 11-29-2007 07:49 PM

Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)
 
[ QUOTE ]
whoever says they wouldn't be pissed off is lying

[/ QUOTE ]
This is totally untrue.


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