Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

I guess not the best forum, but...

Why does he do this?

Pros:
1. He wants to eleminae his potential loss.
2. His elongated bickering pontentially (and actually) often adds to his camera-time.

Cons:

1. He is losing HUGE EV, this is obviously to anyone (including Phil)
2. To anyone that knows anything about poker OR math, he is dropping $K's into a storm drain


Undecideds (???'s):

1. Sacrificing $10k's of EV is worth minutes of camera time
2. The obvious idiocy of paying 10-15% insurance will make semi-aware gamblers realize that he doesn't know the difference b/w slots & poker.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

I just assume he's some sort of poker-miser and would rather lose EV than cash in hand.

Whatever, he knows what he's doing.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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Whatever, he knows what he's doing.

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lol

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

about as nittty as you can get.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

I thought it was funny the other night on HSP when Negreanu asked him, "what is there about money that you don't like?", while he was trying to negotiate insurance.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

He's [censored] rich and doesn't care about losing thousands in EV. Also he's dumb.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

hellmuth is the fgators of hsp

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

It's all about tv time ldo.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

Hellmuth is deathly afraid of varience - his tournament and HSP play make this obvious.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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Whatever, he knows what he's doing.

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lol

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Yes. You don't think he knows he is losing EV by negotiating insurance? Give me a break.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

i think he takes insurance because he is unable to deal with bad beats and he knows it. He would loose way nore if he would tilt.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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I thought it was funny the other night on HSP when Negreanu asked him, "what is there about money that you don't like?", while he was trying to negotiate insurance.

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That was awesome [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

Pros: He often effs up the odds and ends up turning it into a positive EV gamble for himself because no one else seems to notice (see the end of HSP ep 10 this week).

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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Whatever, he knows what he's doing.

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lol

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Yes. You don't think he knows he is losing EV by negotiating insurance? Give me a break.

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I'm sure he knows he's giving up something. But I don't think Hellmuth understands poker and gambling math nearly as much as he should given his success.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

One of the revelations of HSP this year is how poor Phil (and the other top pros) is at calculating hand odds. I guess getting insurance against bad beats is yet another of many ways that he "dodges bullets," in his mind.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

For Helmut it is very important to know the cards of players like Fhara or Baxter when they are in showdown and lose the hand.
Information like that is golden for him.
When Baxter started with not showing the hand while being all-in Helmut started with his insurance trick.
Baxter showed the hand so that Helmut could get his insurance and Helmut got the information he wanted so desperately.
Now he does it everytime to ensure that with All-ins the cards are shown.


Double cheers!

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

I believe this:

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Hellmuth is deathly afraid of varience - his tournament and HSP play make this obvious.

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And this:

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i think he takes insurance because he is unable to deal with bad beats and he knows it. He would loose way nore if he would tilt.


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Are the closest to the truth. While sacrificing EV insurance does reduce your variance almost entirely. It's very clear Hellmuth does not like to lose and would rath win less than lose anything.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

I think it's about TV time...

Hellmuth mentioned in the last episode they're allowed '1 minute' to discuss insurance. This is 1 minute of TV time that all the other pros 'wasted' (in his eyes) and he milked every second of it.

For that 1 minute he's the centre of attention, the cameras are on HIM and it allows him to bath in the glory of having the best hand and outplaying someone.


.Z

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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Hellmuth does not like to lose and would rath win less than lose anything.

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Yea that's what I'm thinking.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

Phil in case you are reading this. You can call me anytime, 24 hours a day 7 days a week if your in a tournament or cash game hand a will always accommodate your insurance needs.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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One of the revelations of HSP this year is how poor Phil (and the other top pros) is at calculating hand odds. I guess getting insurance against bad beats is yet another of many ways that he "dodges bullets," in his mind.

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Didnt he mess up the K9 vs K7 hand? He gave Eli 8 outs, 9s and Js? But since Eli has a 9 there were only 7. He was trying to give 10% juice and ended up giving an extra 12.5%. I bet BA realized and didnt correct him.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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i think he takes insurance because he is unable to deal with bad beats and he knows it. He would loose way nore if he would tilt.

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elementary comment but maybe not?

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

he's just a moron.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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One of the revelations of HSP this year is how poor Phil (and the other top pros) is at calculating hand odds. I guess getting insurance against bad beats is yet another of many ways that he "dodges bullets," in his mind.

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Didnt he mess up the K9 vs K7 hand? He gave Eli 8 outs, 9s and Js? But since Eli has a 9 there were only 7. He was trying to give 10% juice and ended up giving an extra 12.5%. I bet BA realized and didnt correct him.

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Phil said it was 36 wins and 8 losses but since the chop outs didn't count it was actually 30 wins 8 losses which is 3.75:1 which he played off as 4.5:1 so him taking 4:1 was +EV deal.
The only problem is it wasn't actually 36 wins 8 losses because eli only had 7 outs so it was 37-7 and if you take the 6 chop outs out it was 31-7 which is 4.42:1 so phil actually did lose on this but if he could count outs he would have been +EV in this.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

why doesn't UB have an option to pause the game & request insurance from UB, other players at the table, phil ivey...

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

he said he sold part of his action to someone else in HSP (he prob does this a lot).. so hes prob just playing safe trying lock up wins..

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

lol atleast hes not mucking the winning hand

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

I'm guessing it has to do w/ the fact of how big the game is and wanting to hold onto the money more than maximize his EV since he will probably never reach a long run in 300/600nl.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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lol atleast hes not mucking the chopping hand

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FYP?

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

He hates money.

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

chopping hand wins 14k = a winning hand

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

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2. His elongated bickering pontentially (and actually) often adds to his camera-time.


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I think this is the motivation for EVERYTHING phil does

Re: Hellmuth\'s insurance ideology
 

Yeah a few thousand in EV adds tens of thousands to his marketability.