Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Here's the last line from the box score of yesterday's Loiusville - Kentucky game.

UK TD 0:28
STEVE JOHNSON 57 YD PASS FROM ANDRE' WOODSON
(LONES SEIBER KICK)
Drive info: 8 plays, 74 yards.
UL 34 UK 40

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

That was unbelievably stupid. I remember Bobby Bowden kicking a PAT up 12 w/ ~8-10 minutes left vs. Miami a few years ago.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's the last line from the box score of yesterday's Loiusville - Kentucky game.

UK TD 0:28
STEVE JOHNSON 57 YD PASS FROM ANDRE' WOODSON
(LONES SEIBER KICK)
Drive info: 8 plays, 74 yards.
UL 34 UK 40

[/ QUOTE ]

That is unbelievable. How could you possibly be considered a good coach if you make mistakes that are so obvious? WTF!

Also, bump for Andy Reid on monday.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Does it have to be football?

Philadelphia - Top of 8th Score 2-2
Tom Glavine pitching for New York
A Nunez singled to right.
J Moyer bunt popped into double play, third to second, A Nunez doubled off first.
[skipping rest of top of 8th]...

New York - Bottom of 8th Score 2-2
J.C. Romero pitching for Philadelphia
J Romero relieved J Moyer.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

haha, standard charlie manuel. Thats like a good managerial decision from manuel even.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this needs to be clarified. He went for 2 and didn't get it, thereby leaving his team up 11, instead of 12 after a normal PAT.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say like 5-10 minutes left in the game is the cutoff for stuff like this. Any more time left and I don't think you can automatically call any 2pt-conversion/PAT decision stupid. In college I would probably go for 2 every time, so that covers any excuse for a seemingly stupid 2pt-try. With 9 or 10+ minutes left in the game, too much can happen to just automatically for 2 based on game situation, imo.

But yeah, with 5 minutes to go, thats pretty dumb. WAY worse with like 38 seconds to go in the UK situation.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this needs to be clarified. He went for 2 and didn't get it, thereby leaving his team up 11, instead of 12 after a normal PAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is totally standard and correct.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this needs to be clarified. He went for 2 and didn't get it, thereby leaving his team up 11, instead of 12 after a normal PAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is totally standard and correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

level? Or misread?

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this needs to be clarified. He went for 2 and didn't get it, thereby leaving his team up 11, instead of 12 after a normal PAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is totally standard and correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

level? Or misread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Level I hope.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Don't know, but I don't think leaving your team up by a TD, 2pt conversion, and then a FG to tie is ever the correct play with that much time left. Probably want to be up at least 2 TDs there...

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Oklahoma State at Troy...

2nd quarter, Troy up 17. Troy has the ball, 4th and 10 inside their own 30, and runs a fake punt. It seemed like they were trying to let OSU back in the game.

They failed.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

How about the entire coaching staff for UofL. They made some of the worst play calls last night.

UK deserved to win that game. It's hard for me to say that since I'm an UofL fan.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
X-posted from the Texas thread...

Mack Brown went for 2 after scoring with 5 minutes left against UCF to go ahead by 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this needs to be clarified. He went for 2 and didn't get it, thereby leaving his team up 11, instead of 12 after a normal PAT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then this is totally standard and correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

level? Or misread?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it wasn't a level, so either misread or I am retarded. He is up by 11 after the score? or he would be up by 11 after the PAT? 11 is better than 10, but 12 is WAY better than 11, right?

Maybe I am retarded.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

They were up by 11. Instead of taking the 99% chance of going ahead by 12, they went for 2 to go up by 13. Mack Brown=not smart.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
They were up by 11. Instead of taking the 99% chance of going ahead by 12, they went for 2 to go up by 13. Mack Brown=not smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, yeah, thats not what I thought was going on. I'm really not retarded, I just cant read.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

There will be literally dozens of terrible punts on like 4th and 3 from the 41 today, so rather than bump the thread each time, I'll just say that the average football coach is remarkably incompetent at a fairly significant part of his job and that bothers me.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

MNF. Wash up 10-6 and threatening inside the 10 yardline. Andy Reid has the choice of accepting a penalty and making it 3rd and 7 or declining and making it 4th and 2. He accepts. Why the F would he accept when their aim at this point is to hold Wash to a field goal?

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Cubs vs. Reds

Bottom 9th, Cubs just tied the game, have a runner on 3rd, no outs. Reds intentionally walk Daryle Ward then DON'T intentionally walk DeRosa to load the bases and setup a force at home. Because that double play will be beneficial, you know.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
MNF. Wash up 10-6 and threatening inside the 10 yardline. Andy Reid has the choice of accepting a penalty and making it 3rd and 7 or declining and making it 4th and 2. He accepts. Why the F would he accept when their aim at this point is to hold Wash to a field goal?

[/ QUOTE ]

you can't decline false starts

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

If there are < 10 mins left, then yes, go for 2. Of course.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
If there are < 10 mins left, then yes, go for 2. Of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they don't, they almost always wait to go for two on the second TD. At least thats my recollection, possibly confirmation bias.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

SF 17 STL 16 4th Quarter: clock stopped at 1:04 after Isaac Bruce ran OB.

4-3-SF 38 (1:04) 14-J.Wilkins 56 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-45-C.Massey, Holder-89-D.Looker.

Trying to convert a 4th & 3 has to be a much higher percentage play than kicking a game winning 56 yarder.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
SF 17 STL 16 4th Quarter: clock stopped at 1:04 after Isaac Bruce ran OB.

4-3-SF 38 (1:04) 14-J.Wilkins 56 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-45-C.Massey, Holder-89-D.Looker.

Trying to convert a 4th & 3 has to be a much higher percentage play than kicking a game winning 56 yarder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you have to deprecate that a bit. Say they are 75% to convert, and only 50% to make the figgie. On that 75% of the time they convert, how many times do they then go on to win? More than half, probably, but maybe not WAY more than half.

Obviously there is some combination of percentages that tips it in favor of going for it, but it is probably pretty close.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SF 17 STL 16 4th Quarter: clock stopped at 1:04 after Isaac Bruce ran OB.

4-3-SF 38 (1:04) 14-J.Wilkins 56 yard field goal is No Good, Short, Center-45-C.Massey, Holder-89-D.Looker.

Trying to convert a 4th & 3 has to be a much higher percentage play than kicking a game winning 56 yarder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you have to deprecate that a bit. Say they are 75% to convert, and only 50% to make the figgie. On that 75% of the time they convert, how many times do they then go on to win? More than half, probably, but maybe not WAY more than half.

Obviously there is some combination of percentages that tips it in favor of going for it, but it is probably pretty close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah but a FG doesn't win - it puts you up 2 with a minute left where a FG can beat you.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite what you're saying but I think Nebraska waiting to go for it in the 1984 Orange Bowl is one of the biggest coaching mistakes ever.

Here's a description (link)

[ QUOTE ]
On their first drive of the second half Nebraska was able to tie the score 17-17 on a 34 yard Scott Livingston field goal. But Miami responded with a strong attack. Within a five minute span Miami scored two more touchdowns to regain the lead 31-17.

On the next Husker drive Heisman Trophy winner Mike Rozier left the game with a badly bruised ankle, leaving Nebraska looking for a hero.

Nebraska found their hero in Jeff Smith. Smith took the spotlight in the fourth quarter when he rushed for 99 yards and two touchdowns. The key touchdown came on a 24 yard run with only :24 seconds left in the game making the score Miami 31-Nebraska 30.

Nebraska coach Tom Osborne said later he never debated the decision he made next. A one point PAT and a tie game would have given Nebraska the National Championship, but Osborne went for the win with a two point conversion attempt.

Turner Gill took the snap from center and rolled out five steps to his right. He fired the ball towards Jeff Smith just inside the goal line. Hurricane defender Kenny Calhoun stretched out his arm and tipped the ball away and the Hurricanes claimed their first National Championship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Osborne gets a lot of credit for going for the win even if it cost him a shot at the national title. I don't have a problem with that, but kicking to make it 24 - 31 with the plan to go for 2 the next time is idiotic.

He should have gone for 2 to make it 25-31. If successful you win the game and national title with a PAT if you score again. If you miss it then you still have the chance to go for 2 and tie the game to get the national championship. This way you're still going for the win, but you cut the chances of losing everything in half basically.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Icing the kicker for a chipshot. Oops, now they're going for it. Oops, they scored a touchdown instead.

Nice job Reid.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, there is the situation where late in the game a team down by 14 scores a touchdown. This should be an easy go for 2 descision, but they never do.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, there is the situation where late in the game a team down by 14 scores a touchdown. This should be an easy go for 2 descision, but they never do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to pick a nit, it's only correct when p + (1-p)*p*q > q, where p = probability of converting a 2-pointer and q = probability of winning in overtime (assuming extra points are 100%).

If we assume q = 0.5, then going for 2 first is correct when p > 0.382, and I think almost all NFL offenses should be able to convert at this rate from 2 yards out. Dunno about college offenses, since their 2-pointer is from 3 yards out.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

Mota

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

If you score a touchdown down by 14 in the fourth quarter, you should go for two.

Everyone who plays Madden knows this. NFL coaches either do not know this, or are too afraid of the media to do it.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
Icing the kicker for a chipshot. Oops, now they're going for it. Oops, they scored a touchdown instead.

Nice job Reid.

[/ QUOTE ]

how bout calling your 2nd timeout to ice a kicker when up by 3 with 1 min left?

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you score a touchdown down by 14 in the fourth quarter, you should go for two.

Everyone who plays Madden knows this. NFL coaches either do not know this, or are too afraid of the media to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel like a dumb [censored] for not realizing this before since the math is so obvious, but how can I have watched like 5 football games a week for years and never have heard anyone point this out before?

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Icing the kicker for a chipshot. Oops, now they're going for it. Oops, they scored a touchdown instead.

Nice job Reid.

[/ QUOTE ]

how bout calling your 2nd timeout to ice a kicker when up by 3 with 1 min left?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, who was that? That was retarded. I remembered seeing that and was going to post it but I coulden't remember what game it was.

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, there is the situation where late in the game a team down by 14 scores a touchdown. This should be an easy go for 2 descision, but they never do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to pick a nit, it's only correct when p + (1-p)*p*q > q, where p = probability of converting a 2-pointer and q = probability of winning in overtime (assuming extra points are 100%).

If we assume q = 0.5, then going for 2 first is correct when p > 0.382, and I think almost all NFL offenses should be able to convert at this rate from 2 yards out. Dunno about college offenses, since their 2-pointer is from 3 yards out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kind of tired, but is the reason going for two is effective in this situation because of the choice you get to go for one if you make it?

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Icing the kicker for a chipshot. Oops, now they're going for it. Oops, they scored a touchdown instead.

Nice job Reid.

[/ QUOTE ]

how bout calling your 2nd timeout to ice a kicker when up by 3 with 1 min left?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, who was that? That was retarded. I remembered seeing that and was going to post it but I coulden't remember what game it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

I vaguely remember some college game a while back where a team burned their last *two* timeouts to ice the opposing kicker with about a minute left.

EDIT: I think it might have been Alabama-Auburn 1997. Anybody remember?

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, there is the situation where late in the game a team down by 14 scores a touchdown. This should be an easy go for 2 descision, but they never do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to pick a nit, it's only correct when p + (1-p)*p*q > q, where p = probability of converting a 2-pointer and q = probability of winning in overtime (assuming extra points are 100%).

If we assume q = 0.5, then going for 2 first is correct when p > 0.382, and I think almost all NFL offenses should be able to convert at this rate from 2 yards out. Dunno about college offenses, since their 2-pointer is from 3 yards out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kind of tired, but is the reason going for two is effective in this situation because of the choice you get to go for one if you make it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Assuming we are capable of getting the ball back and scoring again, we win by

- scoring 2, then scoring 1 = p * 1.00
- missing 2, then scoring 2, then winning in OT = (1-p) * p * 0.5

Re: Post here when coaches do something obviously stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, this didn't happen recently but I'm watching the Eagles game and it reminded me of something. When a team is down by 15, and there is, say, 8 or 9 minutes left in the game, and they score a TD. You should ALWAYS go for 2, right? Time after time I see the coaches kick the one, to put themselves down by 8, with the plan (apparently) to go for 2 if and when they score again. Doesn't this seem like totally irrational decision based on the fear of "hopelessness" or whatever if you go for it and fail? It makes no sense. Waiting until the second TD, pinning all your hopes on that, has to be worse than trying, failing, and knowing that you now need to score two more times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Also, there is the situation where late in the game a team down by 14 scores a touchdown. This should be an easy go for 2 descision, but they never do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, to pick a nit, it's only correct when p + (1-p)*p*q > q, where p = probability of converting a 2-pointer and q = probability of winning in overtime (assuming extra points are 100%).

If we assume q = 0.5, then going for 2 first is correct when p > 0.382, and I think almost all NFL offenses should be able to convert at this rate from 2 yards out. Dunno about college offenses, since their 2-pointer is from 3 yards out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kind of tired, but is the reason going for two is effective in this situation because of the choice you get to go for one if you make it?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's about maximizing your probability of winning the game.