Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Ok, so fifth and sixth are fairly thin here. Do you like it?

7 Card Stud High ($3/$6), Ante $0,50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.17 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 6: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.50 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls

5th Street - (3.75 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (7.75 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

River - (9.75 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___checks
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks

Total pot: (9.75 BB - $58,50)

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

I probably would have checked 6th & bet the river.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Bet the river.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Betting the river might have some marginal value, but I REALLY don't want to bet/fold the river here in a game I am going to play again

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Who said anything about folding?

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

I like it.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

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Who said anything about folding?

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I am not going to do the calculation, but I feel pretty sure bet/call is a losing play here assuming he calls with twopair and raises with flush, straight and trip J

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

I am re-raising villain's obvious free-card play on Fourth. The rest I play the same.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

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I am re-raising villain's obvious free-card play on Fourth. The rest I play the same.

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Who's making a free-card play? Smells to me like a value raise.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Regarding the river bet question, the decision for me depends on who I am playing. If I believe that villain is solid and capable of folding jacks up, then I will check behind as played. If he is weak, then I bet the river every time and expect to be called with jacks up. I would also consider what he thinks of me, and how I would react to the free showdown offer. If I think he thinks that there is a good chance I will not take the check raise bait, then I bet then too. The logic being that he wants to assure himself of at least 1 more BB if he actually caught, and he really wants to avoid coming away with nothing at all if the flush or trips hit.

I know, I am over complicating this likely.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Maybe, maybe not on the value raise. He could just have easily started with a mid pair and a two flush. In that case, it is definitely a free card attempt. In many cases, this play will get him two free cards at these stakes.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

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I am re-raising villain's obvious free-card play on Fourth. The rest I play the same.

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Who's making a free-card play? Smells to me like a value raise.

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Without running it, I assumed the dead straight cards would put hero's overpair+Ace ahead, but the dead K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] with other clubs live swings it.

If villain has a pair of Nines and a three-flush or a three-straight, (even a three-straight-flush) the re-raise is good, so there's that. There may also be merit to re-raising Fourth to maintain control of the hand.

(I'm obviously making excuses for my mistake here...)

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

If villain had a split pair of nines, he's prolly coming in for a raise on third, given he's just got a 7, 2, and another nine left to act, so I think we can safely discount that. His weak action on 6th indicates he almost certainly wasn't betting a pair of jacks on 4th. So I think we can safely put him on a flush draw (the fact that we have the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] also makes his bet on 5th more likely to be a c-bet than betting a pair of aces).

So now I guess the only question left to ask yourself is, what does the villain think of you? On 4th, your play looks like a pair of nines, but your raise on 5th might make him think you slowplayed aces up there. Do you think he'd put you on aces up or just a pair of nines that read his hand and wanted to punish his draw?

If you think he'll put you on aces, then I don't think he'll call 7th without anything that beats aces up. If you think he's got you on nines, then I think a b/f on the river is fine. If you don't like the b/f line because you think the other players in the game will exploit it and bluff you later on, then I'd suggest finding a different 3/6 game, because I've never played in one where I had to worry about that.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Actually if you've got absolutely zero info on the villain, I don't even mind a b/c line on 7th, just to see how he plays whatever he's got there. You're almost certainly giving a bet away with the call, unless he's the type that thinks jacks up is the nuts here (which is very useful info), but the info you get from it might make you a lot more down the line, especially if you see this guy around a lot.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

Why not just make a more profitable play (check) and get the same information?

Obviously there are people at 3/6 who can exploit a b/f line in this situation. Chasing a draw against a bettor with a pair is such a common situation, and if you can c/r your draw and get the bettor to fold just some of the time that is so incredibly valuable. If I see someone pull a b/f line I instantly take a note on this player. So I would exploit it, and I am probably a loser at stud 3/6...

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

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Why not just make a more profitable play (check) and get the same information?

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Because you get no info on how he plays 7th that way. Is he the type to pay you off with a weaker 2 pair (or even one pair)? Will he checkraise his big hands or bet out with them? Will he c/r bluff here? If these situations keep coming up vs. this villain then knowing how he plays the river is extremely valuable info.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

I'd check sixth. There's an excellent chance that you're losing and almost no chance that he's folding. I think you have a clear value-bet on the end.

Re: Stud hi - KK in hole vs probable flushdraw
 

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If villain has a pair of Nines and a three-flush or a three-straight, (even a three-straight-flush) the re-raise is good, so there's that. There may also be merit to re-raising Fourth to maintain control of the hand.

(I'm obviously making excuses for my mistake here...)

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Since hero is showing a 9 door card it's less likely for the villain to hold split 9's, and also less likely for him to put the hero on split 9's. If we give the villain slowplayed pocket T's that have picked up a 3-card s/f draw, then he has hero crushed and hero should not be raising, and should probably be folding. Kidding! I'm being a sarcastic ass b/c equity sims are a tricky business and there's no shame in being slightly off in an off-the-cuff calculation.