200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

200NL FR

Hero ($197) is UTG with Ad-Kc

Hero raises to $9, MP ($201) calls, BB ($284) calls

Flop Ks-2c-10s (Pot: $28)
BB checks, Hero bets $20, MP calls $20, BB raises to $50, Hero?

First off, it was my third hand at the table so I had no reads or anything. And I was multitabling so I didn't reload after the blinds in time so please no "reload preflop" tips.

Anyways, in this spot I really thought about raising, calling, or folding. I put the MP player on some sort of spade draw though obviously I'm not positive. The question is what the BB has. I don't think he ever has air here. My problem was whether he could just be doing this with a weaker king than my own to define his hand or even a semi-bluffed spade draw. Of course he can also have K-10 or a set in which case I'm drawing pretty slim. A fold is clearly safe here but is it a little too weak? This is a pretty standard spot so what's the generally accepted way to go about playing this here?

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

I call. There are a bunch of cards I go broke on: nonspade T, 2, K, or A. Horrible spot though.

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

I think a fold here might be correct, but I always convince myself that any villain capable of c/ring that retarded size 3-way on this board is stupid enough to do it with Axss or KQ [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

Yeah I probably fold, gross though. Even if he's raising with like p+fd or s+fd your equity isn't that great. Hard to see him donkishly raising a weaker king here.

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

If this is live, i push flop.

If online, highly depends on stats - but I cant put a player who makes a raise like this on a made hand. It is a very vulnerable board even for a hand like TT. I think calling and waiting for turn is the worst play...

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

[ QUOTE ]
If this is live, i push flop.

If online, highly depends on stats - but I cant put a player who makes a raise like this on a made hand. It is a very vulnerable board even for a hand like TT. I think calling and waiting for turn is the worst play...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate a raise here?

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If this is live, i push flop.

If online, highly depends on stats - but I cant put a player who makes a raise like this on a made hand. It is a very vulnerable board even for a hand like TT. I think calling and waiting for turn is the worst play...

[/ QUOTE ]

So you advocate a raise here?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a raise or fold situation, and you can really only make that decision by having some kind of read or stats on your player.

It is only 30$ to you, and the pot is 118. It seems like sick odds to call, but by the time you do, you only have 1 PSB left and there isnt a single card in the deck that could fall that makes you confident about your hand. Every card that helps you either completes a draw, or does not put you ahead of anything you're already beat by. If you just call, you are giving him the action, letting a turn card that you will never like fall, and letting him check behind on the turn if he does happen to miss.

But I also cant fold this for 30$ unless I have a read.


So if you think this is the type of player who would try to buy a free card holding a strong draw with a wimpy raise like this - Push over the top.

If you think he's the type who would make a stupid raise like this with a hand that beats you on a board this vulnerable - fold.

On second thought, any player who would make a raise like this on a board like this is probably not very good in the first place - I almost always push.

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

Why do we want to push and allow him to call a draw getting correct odds? This seems like an ideal spot for a stop and go. If turn comes nonspade T, K, A, 8 or lower (which is more than half the deck), we can shove and price him out. If he has a better hand, he'll insta-call obv but that would've happened if we pushed on the flop anyway. Folding, IMO, is a mistake with no reads.

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

I don't really like a push here either. We can narrow his range down pretty confidently to a big draw or a (somewhat?) big made hand. If I shove here, I don't think there is any hand at all that he can call with that I beat. And he's obviously calling with all the hands that have me crushed that he could have here. I elected to call here and then re-evaluate on the turn. If a scare card comes I'm probably done with the hand. If I have him beat here and he just has K-Q or something I think that will be reflected in how he reacts on the turn. I don't think he can keep firing with a marginal holding such as that or even a draw into two players.

On the actual hand, I called the raise as did the MP player (so now it's pretty obviously a draw)

The turn came a non-spade K.

The BB bet out $80 and I shoved. The MP folded what he said was As-Qs and the BB instacalled with his 10-10.

This card, I feel, is the only card that could drop that could really stack me here. If a blank falls and he fires hard like this again I have to give him credit here. But now three hands beat me here: 10-10, 2-2, or K-10. Of course these are all possibilities, but at this point in the hand I just went with it and hoped to see a K-Q or a random semi-bluff or something.

In retrospect, I think a fold is probably best on the flop here (and this is not just because of the results of the hand). Though it may be a tad weak, it certainly helps to avoid very sticky situations that could come up after the flop that are just unpleasant and will almost certainly be for my whole stack.

Re: 200NL: Yucky spot with TPTK
 

Tough situation