Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

Let's say you strongly suspect your opponent raises you pre-flop with AAxx. Then it is probably quite okay to call with a lot of hands and try to crack him but are there some hands that you should NOT play (besides the obvious like 8886 or something)?

I read that a pair on hand - if I remeber correctly - was to your disadvantage when up against aces. How much of an impact has this? Is it just not playable at all, something like QQT9? Or is is only intersting with shorter stacks? To summarize: when does this concept come into play? Could you give me an example? Or is it to much of technical detail to bother about?

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

Any comments on this?

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

mostly a useful concept in deep HU games; depending on your opponents propensity to monkey-push dry aces on dry boards where you flop sets and drawy boards where you flop big draws.. Against very aggro players, I tend to play almost any 4 against hands where I feel that they have AAxx because they are so likely to push any flop, which in the long run is to my advantage due to re-raise bluffing scary boards, etc.. Realistically though, you want hands like 789T etc against AAxx..

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

any hand with a pair or an ace makes it much worse.

I often fold otherwise good hands containing an ace like AQJ8ss if someone reraise that I strongly suspect have aces.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

Any connectors, like 4567, are perfect to play against AA. Playing really high connectors, like TJQK, are a bit less advantageous because if the A hits for your straight he just hit a FH draw. Double suited obviously more important than not, but be just slightly wary of relying solely on that flush draw as there's a much better chance they have the A-high one.

They're even better if you are 3-way vs two people who obviously have AA and they're gearing up for an AIPF, as their advantages of sets and FHs are very diminished.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

If the stacks are deep enough, just about anything.

In general I'd like anything that's not a pair and doesn't use an ace to complete it (ie. prefer 9876 over QJT9)

I like rundowns (9876, 9875, T986, etc), an ace suited with 3 connecting (A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]76, or with 1-gap: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]87). Even a hand like J975 can do very well with sufficient dead money in the pot. Clearly suited and double-suited increase the chances that I'll play. (example stolen from Rolf Slotboom: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is a 53:47 underdog to 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

And if I'm fairly sure villain has AAxx, I don't mind playing OOP if I can get all my money in on the flop.

And to add to what a poster before me wrote...if I can get AI with an 9876ds-type hand against multiple players (both with AAxx or AAxx vs. KKxx), I love it.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

[ QUOTE ]
having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree - you are about 7-1 to flop a set with something like QQxx, and from some math i believe buzz did its about the same to flop a much weaker 2 pair with say 5678. Of course you are going to have some kind of straight potential with the rundown, but i much prefer the set

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

[ QUOTE ]
having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, one big difference for example is that if you flop something like a pair+gutshot with a pairless hand you are often a favourite vs a dry overpair.

example:

pokenum -o as ad 3c 2h - ks jd 6c 4h -- 7s 8d jc
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 7s Jc 8d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As 3c Ad 2h 401 48.90 419 51.10 0 0.00 0.489
Ks 6c Jd 4h 419 51.10 401 48.90 0 0.00 0.511

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

You'll find yourself coolered more often than you think if you overvalue rundown hands.

And well, you sure paid a big price for a 51/49 favorite. not my idea of profit. sorry.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
having a pair in your hand doesn't hurt as much as people think.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree - you are about 7-1 to flop a set with something like QQxx, and from some math i believe buzz did its about the same to flop a much weaker 2 pair with say 5678. Of course you are going to have some kind of straight potential with the rundown, but i much prefer the set

[/ QUOTE ]


A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8765n = 57:43

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] = 53:47

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] = 59:41

AAKTn v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 49.8: 50.2

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] = 69:32

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] = 65:35

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 55:45

--------
A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 54:46

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 66:34

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] v. Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] = 64:36

----------
AAxx v. QQxx = 69:31
AAxx v. 9876n = 59:41
AAxx v. QQxxss = 68:32
AAxx v. QQxxds = 64:36


These are only HU. When a third player gets involved (all stacks being equal) under pairs go in the crapper. The top pair and rundown aren't hurt as badly

AAxx v. QQxx v. 9876ss = 42:25:33
AAxx v. QQxxss v. 9876ss = 41:27:32
AAxx v. QQxxds v. 9876ss = 39:30:31

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

This really doesn't have much to do with how the hand is going to play out on the flop and how much profit you'll actually make.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $10/$20
3 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $70</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $230</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $990</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($2970, 3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button is all-in $2643</font>, Hero folds, BB folds.
Uncalled bets: $2643 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $2970

Can I fold this preflop against certain aces?

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

emil, I fold in spots like this on regular basis. I would prolly even fold it in position unless you are like 300bb+ deep and/or he is quite donkish and will go broke with his aces regardless of board.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

If you're "certain" you're up against aces, yeah.

EDIT: didn't see the reraise was so big.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

Following on from that question.

What are the best re-raising hands, in position, excluding AA, to balance your re-raising range?

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

How loose is your opponent's opening range.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

Assume a bad player at .5/1 who typically only opens:
AAxx-1010xx and some premium wraps.

Re: Hands to choose to play against AAxx?
 

3-bet with good wraps/ variety of suited double pairs and some other hands depending on the rest of the players at the table, stack sizes, position, and recent history. The problem with 3-betting questions is they are best answered as specific problems with real reads. That is why most threads are specific hands.