explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involved
 

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Reged: Aug 28 2002
Posts: 2491
Re: jay's mentor thread [Re: El Diablo]
#13094079 - Sat Nov 24 2007 02:45 AM (68.104.23.134) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



I now want to see crackdowns across the board on this type of promotion.

Stox and deuces cracked have a partnership with us.

Anyone in the same field as them get no free ads.

As always, I am open to the possibility that my perspective is flawed. Crackdown, resign if that applies, or convince me I'm wrong.

Post Extras:

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

As far as I and uNL are concerned I either nuke or warn against any mention whatsoever of coaching, or paid mentoring sessions. There is the occasional offer of a free sweat or minor hand history review from our more experienced members and I feel that there is nothing wrong with this, but I do not permit commercial enterprise of any kind in uNL and I make no exceptions.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

is this concerning leggo poker avatars?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

and maybe the leggopoker thread where every single coach posts 'i'm not biased or anything... BUT BOBBOS VID IS THE WORTH THE SIGN UP FEE ALONE. A++. F'ING AMAZING!!!'

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Mike Haven

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

TT i hope it is as good as the clasified ads!!!!

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Umm, so how does this affect, if at all, the leggo poker thread(s) in NVG and all the leggo poker avatars?

Thanks,
--jman220

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
TT i hope it is as good as the clasified ads!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

that wasn't supposed to be in the mod forum, it was supposed to be a PM. How embarrassing [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
is this concerning leggo poker avatars?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.legopoker.com/img/uploads...1194239743.gif

These really should go. They're nothing but free ads. The 80x80 avatars aren't much smaller than the 120x60 ads on the right side.

They're different than Evan's golf avatar because the Leggo avatars compete with our paying advertisers.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Avatars are harmless. They are not clickable (like the ads), they do not mention the name directly, and there is no way to get to the site as a direct result of viewing an avatar (no url or link mentioned), and further they don't even explain at all what our site is (like ads do). Clearly paid ads are FAR superior, and we are looking in to purchasing some in the very near future. Me and Mat talked privately about removing some of the avatars as to which I agreed.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

So like, is this whole setup with the logo/location legal?
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7048/dclegalkn3.jpg

I have mentioned to a few other CR owners that we should probably make CR logo-avatars to use on 2p2 and they tell me, "nah, we don't need to be spamming 2p2." Is this considered "spam" in the eyes of the admins?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

If you give people the opportunity to buy reasonably priced advertising, they will spend more time posting content and less time finding creative ways to insert their product into their posts. I suggest the following:

Anything that is currently allowed would continued to be allowed. Anything not allowed would be governed by:

$100/month: Any avatar you want that isn't obscene or clearly scamy
$50/month: Any location you want that isn't obscene or clearly scamy

No flashing or overly distracting avatars (at admin/mod discretion)

An admin then posts the names in a thread here or ATF, which can be easily searched by anyone that wants to check.

This way 2+2 taps a large market of users that would like to advertise on 2+2 but can not because it's too expensive. Such a strategy also gives incentive to posters to post high content material that would otherwise be posted on third party sites or not at all.

Avatars and locations are not clickable and, therefore, are not likely to cannibalize existing ad revenue. Some posters will not like ad avatars, but they have many options to block them including blocking them individually and turning off avatars.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I think that leggopoker avatar is fine. it doesn't have a url in it which has always been the rule for removing stuff. Of all the things 2+2 could be making money on, charging users for avatars? That would be hilarious.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involved
 

Mat, what's a "free ad"?

Is it as simple as saying, in a thread about a topic that the person coaches, that "I can coach you on this game- PM me"?

If stox and DC stop advertising, will their forums be locked and hidden from the general 2+2 public?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Ticker,

You are clearly biased on this issue and should not be acting as if you are not.

Agree with leader. if people want to use their avatars to promote sites then they should pay for it. I think we should just ban advertising avatars altogether rather than charge though.

Also the fact that some mods/people with access to this forum are doing it is gross. Pick a site to associate yourself with and stick with it, but you cant honestly represent each sites best interest without conflict.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involved
 

sponsored forums very specific to a company are shut down completely if the sponsorship ends.

I'm pretty flexible. And I'm less concerned about avatars than posters who try and find every opportunity to link to other sites. That was the prompting for this thread.

the lego avatar is one that was being carried by a bunch of users. at that level it becomes an advertising campaign in my view. it reminds me of the ebay campaign where they advertised "IT".

The pm me example you give is also unacceptable.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think that leggopoker avatar is fine. it doesn't have a url in it which has always been the rule for removing stuff. Of all the things 2+2 could be making money on, charging users for avatars? That would be hilarious.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, but the avatar is very obviously a website. so all i have to do is click on Tickner, or Ship Ship McGipp, or whoever's name, see the homepage field and know exactly what it is.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

most of the people with leggopoker avatars have blog links on leggopoker in their profiles. Is this not kosher?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Spam in your profile is generally ok as long as it isn't mentioned in the location field or avatar (lol).

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involved
 

Don't some forums have a sticky, pointing to a list of coaches?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involved
 

Tick, you should not post in these threads.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tick, you should not post in these threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involved
 

"Tick"

As in, blood-sucking annoyance?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Tick"

As in, blood-sucking annoyance?

[/ QUOTE ]

low blow.... not nice to kick a man when he is down mate! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Tickner and his team had good intentions, although the decision comes down against them and we all seem to agree with this decision we should also acknowledge that Leggo was playing within the gray area which we allowed. Its not Tickerns fault, its our fault for allowing this environment to occur IMHO.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

good intentions? It was to promote a for profit site that has no affiliation with 2+2. Good intentions for self-interest maybe..

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
good intentions? It was to promote a for profit site that has no affiliation with 2+2. Good intentions for self-interest maybe..

[/ QUOTE ]

since its something we allowed how can his intentions not be good?

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
good intentions? It was to promote a for profit site that has no affiliation with 2+2. Good intentions for self-interest maybe..

[/ QUOTE ]

Because making money is evil?

Not in 2p2's best interst != not good imo

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Agree with TT and dids. They operated within the rules and now the rules have changed. It happens.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Tick"

As in, blood-sucking annoyance?

[/ QUOTE ]

low blow.... not nice to kick a man when he is down mate! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Tickner and his team

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought he was referring to me not Tickner. No offense intended to others, only myself.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

It was clearly abusing the avatar privilege that 2+2 offers its users for personal gain.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I brought this up when the "Best MSNL coaches" thread was started. I thought it was probably not kosher, I was convinced otherwise. The cat is out of the bag basically, people have been discussing 3bet and LP coaches freely. We have coaches talking about what they do, we have people recommending coaches to one another. Either you just let this stuff fly completely or just crack down and refuse to allow anyone to mention anything related to coaching. I don't think the latter is unreasonable, it's just that these are our two options.

Allowing stupid loopholes like "url in profile only" and whatever just leads to people finding ways around loopholes. "Not coaching" in location, LP avatars, I mean come on. People aren't stupid, we aren't running a kindergarten here. Either we have a strong message that you have to pay to advertise, or have others advertise, your services around here, or we just let it all loose.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

discussions of the best coaches for your buck is similar to talking about which site has the best fish, lowest rake ect. Allowing people to have those avatars is similar to allowing a poker site to post threads about how awesome they are, which is considered spam.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
discussions of the best coaches for your buck is similar to talking about which site has the best fish, lowest rake ect. Allowing people to have those avatars is similar to allowing a poker site to post threads about how awesome they are, which is considered spam.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It's a fine line to say that aejones or MDMA or whoever else isn't allowed to put "Coaching" in their location, but it's ok to have a long thread in which it is made quite clear that they are coaching. It's not like some random guy in OOT is going to see MDMA post something and be like "hmm coaching, I don't play poker seriously but this is appealing!"

It's people who probably already read MSNL that would possibly be influenced by such knowledge, so having a "Best MSNL coach" thread up on the front page isn't exactly going to go unnoticed by this particular demographic.

Moreover, it's hard to say that people who actually work for Legopoker/3bet/some other site can't spam/post URLs when all these people have a ton of friends who are willing to do it for them.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Moreover, it's hard to say that people who actually work for Legopoker/3bet/some other site can't spam/post URLs when all these people have a ton of friends who are willing to do it for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

BAN THEM ALL (serious biz)

I see where you are coming from but I think coaching is a bit different than o particular business like 3 bet or leggo. Its a fine line, but there is a distinction in my mind and one should be enforced severly and is important (the corporations) and the individual coaching services pimping can be enforced less strictly since that is super hard to define and make clear to users. But I just feel we should have a zero tolerance policy towards free advertising for businesses.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

thats another thing that been bothering me.


most of these mod discussions it seems, is individuals voicing their opinion on how they would like the site to be run. When I mke an opinion I do it in the fram eof mind that I own 2+2 and what should I do to maximize profit long term. This is intro level economics/incentives stuff, but the inherent problems of being advised by a bunch of mods with zero ownership is clear to me and should be to the owners of this site as well(I hope).

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

I totally appreciate your perspective, and knowing how you think is helpful when I have money in mind. But it's not all about money. It's about providing a good experience, so everyone's perspective has value for us.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

[ QUOTE ]
But I just feel we should have a zero tolerance policy towards free advertising for businesses.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this btw.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

good experience = long term profits so yes I do consider that, its part of the total profits equation and is in fact, one of the most essential parts. Just wanted to make that clear.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

Mat,

FWIW, the "coaches/business/whatever can't start threads about themselves, but discussion of them is fine if other people post questions" is one of the silliest 2+2 policies around.

Re: explosion of coaching site spam and the fact? that mods are involv
 

How would you have it?