Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

My opponent did not seem to care that i was betting trip kings face up on 4th, should I switch to call down mode on 5th?
Tournament - - Level IV (60/120), Ante 12, Bring-In 18 (converter)

Seat 1: 796
Seat 2: 1,908
Seat 3: 761
Hero: 1,242
Seat 5: 2,795
Seat 6: 953
Seat 7: 1,205
Seat 8: 2,340

3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (4.90 SB)

Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___raises

5th Street - (8.45 BB)

Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 8: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

Definitely switch to calldown mode unless you fill up. You have told him twice that you have 3 Ks and he doesn't care.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

By the time fifth comes along you've put in more than a third of your stack, and calling down is going to cost you another 25% or so. I'd go ahead and jam, and hope he's clueless.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

I don't think the problem was that he didn't care that you were betting trip Kings face up. The problem was that you didn't care that he was raising your trip Ks with probable trip Aces. I think the cap on 5th is pretty spewy. I would either cap 4th and see if he checks to you on 5th, or just put in one raise on 5th and then call down.....unless you have a good read that says to get all your chips in the middle that is.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

I would probably just call 4th and call down from there. If villain doesn't have trips, he is probably way behind. Why tell him you have trips?

As played, I would just call down 5th-7th unless you improve.

I assume this is stud hi only.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

Given villain's 3rd street action of just calling your raise and that seat #7 folded an Ace door card in front of villain, I think it is just as likely villain has Aces over as it is that he has trip Aces on 4th street.

I agree with Poor Lawyer...either cap the betting on 4th street to see what villain does on 5th or play 4th street as you did, just make one raise on 5th street, and call down to river. I actually prefer the latter course of action, inasmuch as it would minimize the dent this is going to make in your stack for the rest of the tournament if he does have trip Aces and it will keep villain in the hand all the way to showdown if all he has is Aces over.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

Is this a stud tournament or a HORSE tournament?

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

Thanks all. I realized that the best play on 5th is call, but was in denial while playing that street. Playing stud hi small buyin tourneys i have gotten used to players jamming against me with small one pair when i have aces, and other "imaginative" plays. The input was helpful.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks all. I realized that the best play on 5th is call, but was in denial while playing that street. Playing stud hi small buyin tourneys i have gotten used to players jamming against me with small one pair when i have aces, and other "imaginative" plays. The input was helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]
Your play on 3rd, 4th, and 5th makes it pretty obvious you have trip kings, so when villain keeps raising you, what can he have?

At later stages of these studaments, everyone always steals with an ace showing and some people will play an ace door card strongly trying to bluff with nothing. Therefore, it is not always a bad play to play a pair strongly against an ace.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

If you call down from where you left off and lose you'll have less than 3 bets left, which will be short enough that you'll have to get them in on Third and pray pretty soon thereafter. I'd go ahead and try to get them all in, like 2461Badugi says. Maybe your villain thinks Aces-up is good here.

I prefer capping on Fourth and calling down until you fill, which will leave you with five bets if you lose. Depressing, but not totally screwed.

He's going to show you Jacks full or Aces up more often than Trip Aces or Aces full since he didn't put in more action on Third. You're only drawing bad to one of those hands.

I don't like being in this spot, but calling down leaves you crippled if you're behind and your hand is too good to fold given the action and the random nature of tournament opponents. If you have 15 bets to start then I think you should call down even if you cap Fifth. You'll have enough stack left to mount a rally if you don't win the hand.

Results
 

Thanks for the analysis. Villian had split aces on 3rd. He filled up on river. I now realize once 4th was jammed calling down was best option, but much like ATL braves fans (of which I am one) I was in denial. Hopefully this thread will prevent me from making the same mistake twice. Thanks all.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

I think your best line was to call down from fourth street. Let him bluff off his money if he doesn't have trips. If you raise and he doesn't have trips, you let him get away from his hand. Calling down loses the least when you're behind, and it comes close to maximizing when you're ahead.

If he checks at any point, bet and take it from there.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think your best line was to call down from fourth street. Let him bluff off his money if he doesn't have trips. If you raise and he doesn't have trips, you let him get away from his hand. Calling down loses the least when you're behind, and it comes close to maximizing when you're ahead.

If he checks at any point, bet and take it from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the villain is agressive and prone to bluff I think Andy's advice is the best line in the long run. If the opponent is weak then get your money in right away.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

It's a hand you can't get away from with his just calling the raise on third and another dead ace. You can't look at it and take him for trips anymore or anyless than him calling the third st. raise with a lesser pair and now aces up. Ask though why you would even raise on fourth.

If he has trip aces then you want to put in the least you can and maybe you fill up since you can't throw away trip K's like this. If he does have aces up why risk a raise scaring him off and knowing you have a set of Kings costing you more profit. The raise on fourth does not appear profitable either way. If you are ahead you might scare him out of the hand early, I mean you did raise on thrid to represent a king and now caught another, so if keen he shoudl be able to surmise you have trip kings. If he does have three aces than he is taking more money.

On fourth I think you had two choices:
1) to see where you are at, raise on fourth to find out if he has trips (again depends on the player) but if he is an astute player he would fold to your raise with Aces up, taking your raise to mean trip kings. When he raises back you get out of there though you have to get out. (I'm assuming you can doubel bet on fourth) You raise and his reraise would have taken you to the river if you just called in value (3BB) so my calling his reraise and deciding to take it to the river you will lose double now if he does have trip aces. So if you choose this plan of action to raise and see where he is act, you have to act accordingly to his response and fold on fourth.

or

2) Figure even if he has three aces you do have trip kings and decide to just call down never raising unless you fill up. If he does have just aces up you made more than if you raised on fourth because he would have folded then. If he does have trip aces you lost less than if you raised on fourth.

Basically I would have just called down from fourth street on. If he has aces up let him pay me, with trips at least i didn't give as much as you did, but knowing the play I may have made a great lay down also because like one poster said he didn't give two craps abotu your paired door card of kings and you raised, I mean did even look at your cards, hesitate. If you KNOW you have trip K to trip A you have a 15% chance to win and should just fold, but that is from the read of your player.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

Everyone who is advocating calling down with bricks from Fourth, what is your plan UI if he checks to us on the river? If you say bet, then we fold to a check-raise, right? If you say check behind, you are losing your opportunity to make up for the extra bet a cap on Four would give you.

I think one bet on Fourth isn't enough with the second nuts.

Re: Should I slow down on 5th street?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone who is advocating calling down with bricks from Fourth, what is your plan UI if he checks to us on the river? If you say bet, then we fold to a check-raise, right? If you say check behind, you are losing your opportunity to make up for the extra bet a cap on Four would give you.

I think one bet on Fourth isn't enough with the second nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not LHE, the nuts are staring us straight in the face.

there's also no particular reason not to fold to a river CR unimproved (in fact, if he's looking past his own cards he should be check/calling 3 aces on the river too, so it's not like we're even missing much value by checking).