63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

Flop JT3 2 spades.

I check. PJ bets. 2 callers. I call.

Turn is an offsuit 6. I check. PJ bets. 1 caller. I CR. PJ 3 bets. Ultra fishy lady calls. I...?

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

i don't know pj's playing style but have seen it described as solid and it doesn't seem like he'd b/3b the turn with anything you beat here really? would he play a huge spade draw hand this way or aj or aa?

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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i don't know pj's playing style but have seen it described as solid and it doesn't seem like he'd b/3b the turn with anything you beat here really? would he play a huge spade draw hand this way or aj or aa?

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Well given that if he does have AA, he shouldn't really put me on much he beats except I would play a turned pair+flushdraw like this. With an OESFD, I would CR on the flop 100%.

If he has AA, he could be vainly trying to KO the lady's draw, but I think he may have known that wouldn't happen, and that his equity wouldn't be positive vs me.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

I can't imagine he would 3-bet with AA, KK or QQ here unless he thinks you're trying to check raise him off his big pair.
Does he think you might check raise a single pair here?

If he suspects you have two small pair then I would imagine he would just call hoping to counterfit you. By 3-betting he's saying "I have you crushed."

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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I can't imagine he would 3-bet with AA, KK or QQ here

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I can...along with AJ and KJ if he plays it from that early on.

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If he suspects you have two small pair then I would imagine he would just call hoping to counterfit you. By 3-betting he's saying "I have you crushed."

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Not really. Think about it from PJ's prospective: That turn 6 was pretty innocuous (there's no way it should improve any hand on the turn, right?). So he'll probably think snowball was making a move at it on the turn with some mediocre hand trying to get PJ off the best hand, while charging the drawer.

You have a hidden gem of hand. Easy 4-bet and lead non-scary river. And despite what stox says, I'm probably folding 63o to a raise pre-flop.

Garland

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

The only reason I can think of to continue is that PJ knows that we didn't flop a big hand (including an OESFD) because we didn't check-raise or lead out on that draw-heavy flop. Also, he knows that we wouldn't call the flop with 66. So, the only hands that make sense for hero are J6/T6/36, and if PJ doesn't know that OP read stox's book (or never read it himself), then he might think that OP wouldn't call PF with any of those hands.

So it's possible that PJ went through that thought process and determined that OP simply couldn't have a hand that beats his overpair. I think that's enough doubt to call here and call again on the river (plus we could have outs again JTs).

I think 4-betting is too much because too often PJ will have JJ or TT here. Also it'll be an easy fold for him with an overpair when he'd probably bet again on the river with it (so we win the same, lose less).

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think 4-betting is too much because too often PJ will have JJ or TT here. Also it'll be an easy fold for him with an overpair when he'd probably bet again on the river with it (so we win the same, lose less).

[/ QUOTE ]

Given his range of hands (AJ, AA, KK, QQ, maybe KJ along with of course the JJ and TT), I think 63 kills his range. Some thoughts on the turn:

It's a 4-bet cap. If we are ahead, we need to charge the drawer. In addition, we need to charge PJ to draw to counterfeits and better two pair etc.

If PJ does have a set, he will raise on the river, and I am perfectly willing to fold to a river raise.

Garland

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given his range of hands (AJ, AA, KK, QQ, maybe KJ along with of course the JJ and TT), I think 63 kills his range. Some thoughts on the turn:

It's a 4-bet cap. If we are ahead, we need to charge the drawer. In addition, we need to charge PJ to draw to counterfeits and better two pair etc.

If PJ does have a set, he will raise on the river, and I am perfectly willing to fold to a river raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that really is his range and it's all weighted equally, then capping is clearly right - I just think that his range is weighted more towards the hands that crush us than the ones that we beat (i.e. he won't 3-bet every time with one pair, but he'll always do it with a set). Letting him draw to his 5-8 outer is tempered by the times that we are way behind and save a bet (or two bets, if the river comes bad and we can just check-fold), and the times that the river is a blank and we make the same amount (by calling twice) as capping the turn and leading.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

gosh i think it's a lot closer to a fold than to a 4bet, sheesh

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

"gosh i think it's a lot closer to a fold than to a 4bet, sheesh"

Agreed, but it probably becomes a cap if you are already down a million dollars, are potentially steaming or appear to be, or if the villain thinks you are capable of completely effing around.

-Michael

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

good points michael.

garland often seems to post very conservatively in my opinion which is why i was very surprised to see him endorse the cap. i guess also the propensity for everyone to raise the turn today when they pick up a flush draw might also come into play here more than i thought, since pj could be putting snowball on that and 3betting a big pocket pair to charge him.

i guess this kind of hand does depend a lot on table image and reads and so on.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

hm yea i didn't even notice pf; i fold this as well.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but c'mon, its still a 6-3o. Even if you hit it, the five other players are drawing to a flush, with two cards to come. I even figured out the math here, it just ain't worth it, even against a donk like Joker.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but c'mon, its still a 6-3o. Even if you hit it, the five other players are drawing to a flush, with two cards to come. I even figured out the math here, it just ain't worth it, even against a donk like Joker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to see the long form of "figuring out the math"

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not really. Think about it from PJ's prospective: That turn 6 was pretty innocuous (there's no way it should improve any hand on the turn, right?). So he'll probably think snowball was making a move at it on the turn with some mediocre hand trying to get PJ off the best hand, while charging the drawer.

You have a hidden gem of hand. Easy 4-bet and lead non-scary river. And despite what stox says, I'm probably folding 63o to a raise pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a protected pot and pj knows this. there is no way he thinks you're bluffing when you c/r the field on the turn. His 3 bet is a sign of strenth. Would he do this w/AA or KK? Possibly but maybe not, would he do it w/TT or JJ? Definatly. PJs range should be heavily weighted toward JJ or TT. I call here and call the river if it doesn't counterfit my hand. 4 betting is just silly here. Call down and don't like it

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

Snowball didn't say this in the OP, but he was in the BB. So he didn't call 2 cold.

Nevertheless, 63o is a turbo-muck for me in this spot from the BB against a fairly TAGgish open raiser like joker. Also, I don't want Snowball defending his BB with hands like this because I can't put him on it and that might make my play tougher in later streets when trying to read his hand.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but c'mon, its still a 6-3o. Even if you hit it, the five other players are drawing to a flush, with two cards to come. I even figured out the math here, it just ain't worth it, even against a donk like Joker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to see the long form of "figuring out the math"

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Stox, my math and statistical skills atrophied since my college and grad school days of thirty years ago. However, in your brilliant work "Winning in Tough Holdem Games" (of which I purchased a copy the day it was available)you prepared an analysis, of defending with a 6-3o. I must review this once I return home to check the results for this hand under various limits to the best of my recollection.

Anyway, it still seems to me if you are up against Joker in this situation, you are getting your ass kicked in the end with your two pair of 6-3o.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

garland, 4-betting this turn barring any specific factors thats been going on is throwing money away.

also the range you give is ridiculous for joker to 3-bet this turn.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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garland, 4-betting this turn barring any specific factors thats been going on is throwing money away.

also the range you give is ridiculous for joker to 3-bet this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. The only thing that we aren't told is if Joker thinks Snowball is on tilt but the multiway turn CR is so strong that I doubt it matters.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

Flop JT3 2 spades.

I check. PJ bets. 2 callers. I call.

Turn is an offsuit 6. I check. PJ bets. 1 caller. I CR. PJ 3 bets. Ultra fishy lady calls. I...?

[/ QUOTE ]

The real question here is, does PJ know not to 3bet an overpair here? My guess is that he does, and thus you draw dead.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

call, cc river even if you fill up, fold OOP if a J or T hits.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

I think you're toast in this hand.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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garland, 4-betting this turn barring any specific factors thats been going on is throwing money away.

also the range you give is ridiculous for joker to 3-bet this turn.

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QFT. The only thing that we aren't told is if Joker thinks Snowball is on tilt but the multiway turn CR is so strong that I doubt it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. Only if he thinks you are on tilt would you considered putting in those extra bets, but you are probally way behind. PJ is semi-nitty and wont get out of line in a big pot.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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garland, 4-betting this turn barring any specific factors thats been going on is throwing money away.

also the range you give is ridiculous for joker to 3-bet this turn.

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QFT. The only thing that we aren't told is if Joker thinks Snowball is on tilt but the multiway turn CR is so strong that I doubt it matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. Only if he thinks you are on tilt would you considered putting in those extra bets, but you are probally way behind. PJ is semi-nitty and wont get out of line in a big pot.

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Joker's a nit, but he's not stupid. Not getting out of line in a big pot is something far different than setting money on fire by costing yourself big pots through passivity. I'm not saying this 3-bet shouldn't worry you, but the pot size and his opponents in this hand are reasons to think Joker is weaker, not stronger.

Joker--

No offense, of course. I think you play well.

--Nate

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
I CR. PJ 3 bets. Ultra fishy lady calls. I...?

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super easy fold, your crushed. PJ isnt 3-betting a hand that cant beat your two pair.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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I CR. PJ 3 bets. Ultra fishy lady calls. I...?

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super easy fold, your crushed. PJ isnt 3-betting a hand that cant beat your two pair.

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TT--

Why?

Part of me wants to fold this hand, but some hand-reading (preflop being important) and thinking through the hand from Joker's perspective makes me want to make him show me a hand here. I think it's even more important than usual to know how Joker views Snowball. Certainly I'd say that folding requires some justification.

--Nate

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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I CR. PJ 3 bets. Ultra fishy lady calls. I...?

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super easy fold, your crushed. PJ isnt 3-betting a hand that cant beat your two pair.

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TT--

Why?

Part of me wants to fold this hand, but some hand-reading (preflop being important) and thinking through the hand from Joker's perspective makes me want to make him show me a hand here. I think it's even more important than usual to know how Joker views Snowball. Certainly I'd say that folding requires some justification.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Name one hand that Joker would three-ball on the turn that is behind Snows range. Also tell me if any of those hands will be behind if snow catches a 4 outer to fill up on the river. I cant think of any, if you can I'm prepared to keep an open mind. even if Snow is viewed poorly in PJ's mind I dont see a 3-bet with an overpair here.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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I CR. PJ 3 bets. Ultra fishy lady calls. I...?

[/ QUOTE ]

super easy fold, your crushed. PJ isnt 3-betting a hand that cant beat your two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT--

Why?

Part of me wants to fold this hand, but some hand-reading (preflop being important) and thinking through the hand from Joker's perspective makes me want to make him show me a hand here. I think it's even more important than usual to know how Joker views Snowball. Certainly I'd say that folding requires some justification.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Name one hand that Joker would three-ball on the turn that is behind Snows range. Also tell me if any of those hands will be behind if snow catches a 4 outer to fill up on the river. I cant think of any, if you can I'm prepared to keep an open mind. even if Snow is viewed poorly in PJ's mind I dont see a 3-bet with an overpair here.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT--

Snowball loses to QQ and JJ. Joker could 3bet AA, KK, and AQ with the right reads. What would you do with a total calling station on your left and an aggro guy on your right in a big pot? Would you do it all the time?

--Nate

EDIT: I see you mentioned the overpair. I think that Joker's making a big mistake if he's not at least thinking about 3-betting those hands, because he might be ahead, the pot is big, and it might get him a free showdown. We've all seen that Snowball will have a terrible time not shutting down with basically anything he's got. Joker's smart enough to realize this. Remember that the total station to Joker's left could easily have a draw, and particularly with draws like gutshots and 5-out one-pair hands Joker wants badly to 3-bet. Again, calling this an "obvious fold" is a very simplistic and zeroth-to-first-level way to approach this hand.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

Against me in this spot I would call down and not like it. If this were a hand in a vacuum against an unknown TAG, I would not 3-bet big overpairs. But this situation, if any, would have me widening my 3-betting range for the reasons Nate posted.

Therefore folding might be wrong here in a pot of this size with the dead money in there. But 4-betting is also a spew. Such is the position you're in when you call my raises with 63o, flop bottom pair, and peel.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Against me in this spot I would call down and not like it. If this were a hand in a vacuum against an unknown TAG, I would not 3-bet big overpairs. But this situation, if any, would have me widening my 3-betting range for the reasons Nate posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually surprised that you would widen your 3-betting range to include overpair hands here, perhaps I gave Snowball a bit too much credit with his image.

Let me instead ask you, what range of hands do you think Snowball c/r's the turn with that makes 3-betting a hand like AA or KK optimal?

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Against me in this spot I would call down and not like it. If this were a hand in a vacuum against an unknown TAG, I would not 3-bet big overpairs. But this situation, if any, would have me widening my 3-betting range for the reasons Nate posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually surprised that you would widen your 3-betting range to include overpair hands here, perhaps I gave Snowball a bit too much credit with his image.

Let me instead ask you, what range of hands do you think Snowball c/r's the turn with that makes 3-betting a hand like AA or KK optimal?

[/ QUOTE ]

TT--

"Too much credit?" There are reasons that strong players would get aggressive with one pair here. Joker should play AJ and other hands like this; also there would be reasons to bet AK on this turn against a woman who's likely drawing and a guy who knows how to fold a pair.

More important is to remember what will happen if Joker 3bets: he gets to control how much more money goes in the pot very very often, especially with his tight image. Meanwhile, the woman to his left either folds (which Joker almost certainly wants her to do if he doesn't have a set) or calls two big bets badly. Given that Joker probably has to call the river with a lot of his hands, 3-betting is a small investment. And heck, Snowball might find a way to fold two pair.

I don't think any of this is farfetched reasoning: all it takes is assuming that Joker, who reads this forum constantly and knows how to read hands and rarely gets lazy over the felt, is reading hands.

--Nate

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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Against me in this spot I would call down and not like it. If this were a hand in a vacuum against an unknown TAG, I would not 3-bet big overpairs. But this situation, if any, would have me widening my 3-betting range for the reasons Nate posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually surprised that you would widen your 3-betting range to include overpair hands here, perhaps I gave Snowball a bit too much credit with his image.

Let me instead ask you, what range of hands do you think Snowball c/r's the turn with that makes 3-betting a hand like AA or KK optimal?

[/ QUOTE ]

TT--

"Too much credit?" There are reasons that strong players would get aggressive with one pair here. Joker should play AJ and other hands like this; also there would be reasons to bet AK on this turn against a woman who's likely drawing and a guy who knows how to fold a pair.

More important is to remember what will happen if Joker 3bets: he gets to control how much more money goes in the pot very very often, especially with his tight image. Meanwhile, the woman to his left either folds (which Joker almost certainly wants her to do if he doesn't have a set) or calls two big bets badly. Given that Joker probably has to call the river with a lot of his hands, 3-betting is a small investment. And heck, Snowball might find a way to fold two pair.

I don't think any of this is farfetched reasoning: all it takes is assuming that Joker, who reads this forum constantly and knows how to read hands and rarely gets lazy over the felt, is reading hands.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]
you should answer the question I had for Joker -
"what range of hands do you think Snowball c/r's the turn with that makes 3-betting a hand like AA or KK optimal? " using Joker's eyes of course, view Snow as Joker would see him.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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Against me in this spot I would call down and not like it. If this were a hand in a vacuum against an unknown TAG, I would not 3-bet big overpairs. But this situation, if any, would have me widening my 3-betting range for the reasons Nate posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually surprised that you would widen your 3-betting range to include overpair hands here, perhaps I gave Snowball a bit too much credit with his image.

Let me instead ask you, what range of hands do you think Snowball c/r's the turn with that makes 3-betting a hand like AA or KK optimal?

[/ QUOTE ]

TT--

"Too much credit?" There are reasons that strong players would get aggressive with one pair here. Joker should play AJ and other hands like this; also there would be reasons to bet AK on this turn against a woman who's likely drawing and a guy who knows how to fold a pair.

More important is to remember what will happen if Joker 3bets: he gets to control how much more money goes in the pot very very often, especially with his tight image. Meanwhile, the woman to his left either folds (which Joker almost certainly wants her to do if he doesn't have a set) or calls two big bets badly. Given that Joker probably has to call the river with a lot of his hands, 3-betting is a small investment. And heck, Snowball might find a way to fold two pair.

I don't think any of this is farfetched reasoning: all it takes is assuming that Joker, who reads this forum constantly and knows how to read hands and rarely gets lazy over the felt, is reading hands.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]
you should answer the question I had for Joker -
"what range of hands do you think Snowball c/r's the turn with that makes 3-betting a hand like AA or KK optimal? " using Joker's eyes of course, view Snow as Joker would see him.

[/ QUOTE ]

TT--

I don't know much about Snowball. From Joker's perspective Snowball could do this with two pair or better, sometimes with Qx, and sometimes taking a shot with a pocket pair or draw or something. The last is admittedly unlikely, but remember that the lady doesn't have to have a pair and sometimes Joker won't either.

Also, this line of reasoning gets hashed out a hundred times daily on 2+2, but if Joker's going to give Snowball credit for such a big hand, Snowball should raise a lot. If this were a protected pot, we could interpret actions honestly, but the lady to Joker's left is an anti-protecting presence here.

And again, there's very little risk to 3-betting, from Joker's shoes. The wonky one-pair and no-pair hands in Snowball's range can be discounted heavily and still swing this to a threebet.

--Nate

EDIT: By the way, I hadn't ignored your question; I meant to address it with my "too much credit?" thing. Those very first comments are meant to refer to Snowball.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

"Such is the position you're in when you call my raises with 63o, flop bottom pair, and peel."

Not really. Most of the time when he makes a hand he's going to have your balls in a grinder.

-Michael

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

[ QUOTE ]


Not really. Most of the time when he makes a hand he's going to have your balls in a grinder.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I know. That's why I facetiously attempted to discourage him from doing it (by saying it's hard for me to put him on this hand). Next time I'm not going to be lucky enough to have flopped a set.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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I would play a turned pair+flushdraw like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

well that sure is bad.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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Not really. Think about it from PJ's prospective

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Let's do that.

When PJ has an overpair or maybe AJ.......I bet the JT3 flop and got called in a few spots, one of whom is in the BB and reads 2+2, so there is a chance he is not a complete idiot. A rag hits the turn, and now this guy check/raises. Hmmm. Well, he can't have JT, because check calling this flop would be idiotic. He can't have a set, because check calling this flop would be idiotic. He MAY have something like AJ-QJ, but if he does the only hand in my range here that (a) currently beats him and (b) is rather vulnerable to that is QQ. There were lots of people in preflop, so he was getting a good price. I bet he has something like T6s, which I cannot currently beat. I could 3bet this turn with my AA and charge the tramp behind me to draw to her spades, but why would I ever do that when BB clearly has me beat? OK, I call and sure hope the board pairs the 3.


When PJ has JJ or TT....I don't what this guy has, but it doesn't beat me and now I get to go crazy on this turn with a set and this gal drawing at a flush behind me. Thank you, God.



The proper turn play for BB here is to call the 3bet. When a good card comes on the river (like a red 2), he should donk/fold.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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Not really. Think about it from PJ's prospective

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Let's do that.

When PJ has an overpair or maybe AJ.......I bet the JT3 flop and got called in a few spots, one of whom is in the BB and reads 2+2, so there is a chance he is not a complete idiot. A rag hits the turn, and now this guy check/raises. Hmmm. Well, he can't have JT, because check calling this flop would be idiotic. He can't have a set, because check calling this flop would be idiotic. He MAY have something like AJ-QJ, but if he does the only hand in my range here that (a) currently beats him and (b) is rather vulnerable to that is QQ. There were lots of people in preflop, so he was getting a good price. I bet he has something like T6s, which I cannot currently beat. I could 3bet this turn with my AA and charge the tramp behind me to draw to her spades, but why would I ever do that when BB clearly has me beat? OK, I call and sure hope the board pairs the 3.


When PJ has JJ or TT....I don't what this guy has, but it doesn't beat me and now I get to go crazy on this turn with a set and this gal drawing at a flush behind me. Thank you, God.



The proper turn play for BB here is to call the 3bet. When a good card comes on the river (like a red 2), he should donk/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

PokerBob--

Thanks for this post.

I agree Snowball looks like two pair, but if he's going to fold two pair to a threebet then Joker can exploit the crap out of him. I understand that exploitability is far from the end of the story, but in a spot like this it's worth thinking about.

And I don't think Joker can put Snowball so squarely on two pair, simply because Snowball can't put Joker squarely on a pair at all. This could be an opportunistic raise in a substantial pot against someone who probably doesn't have much and someone who might not. Or it could just be for value with a Q that he for some reason decided to check twice.

And, as I elaborated on before, I think this is a spot where Joker should be looking for reasons to 3-bet, not to call.

--Nate

EDIT: I see that you edited your post to include a line for BB. Glad to see we agree.

Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker
 

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I would play a turned pair+flushdraw like this.

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well that sure is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]


PokerBob--

Is this really that bad? LP can easily have garbage and PJ can easily have AK/AQ. [Insert thing about fractions of bets and big pots.]

BTW I'm legitimately asking this question, not being passive-aggressive. I'm not sure it's viable but every so often you induce a fold from a live or even better hand, sometimes you make money immediately, and you rarely lose much. I guess getting 3bet by a set would be unpleasant, but c'mon, whoever flops a set?

--Nate

EDIT: Maybe the key distinction to make re: your post is that between clearly wrong and very wrong?