i raise to what?
 

villain is krantz, at these stacks i feel like he would c/r any big hand for value. he is 28/21 so i dont think he has many strong hands here, the strongest possible is 76. 77 probably 3bets flop. he might have AK or KQ i suppose and isnt planning on folding it.

he is definitely curious and i have stacked him once when i took a weird line with a flush (2x turn overbet, 2x river overbet).

i just feel like this is a spot where he is annoying enough to be pretty well balanced vs a raise (in terms of playing back), but he still shouldnt be strong enough to deal with me here.

ok, so whats the plan?


earlier hand if it affects your decision:

Seat 1: Mailman911 ($661.10)
Seat 2: pr1nnyraid ($3,357.05)
Seat 3: Smart LAG ($1,041)
Seat 4: DMoogle ($1,000), is sitting out
Seat 5: aaupscores12 ($490)
Seat 6: Steam Roller ($950.20)
Smart LAG posts the small blind of $5
aaupscores12 has 5 seconds left to act
aaupscores12 posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Smart LAG [Kd Qd]
Steam Roller folds
Mailman911 folds
pr1nnyraid raises to $35
Smart LAG has 15 seconds left to act
Smart LAG calls $30
aaupscores12 folds
*** FLOP *** [7d 4d 6d]
Smart LAG checks
pr1nnyraid checks
*** TURN *** [7d 4d 6d] [Ts]
Smart LAG has 15 seconds left to act
Smart LAG bets $160
pr1nnyraid has 15 seconds left to act
pr1nnyraid calls $160
*** RIVER *** [7d 4d 6d Ts] [Ah]
Smart LAG has 15 seconds left to act
Smart LAG bets $846, and is all in
pr1nnyraid has 15 seconds left to act
pr1nnyraid calls $846
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Smart LAG shows [Kd Qd] a flush, King high
Seat 2: pr1nnyraid (button) mucked [Ad Jh] - a pair of Aces


actual hand!

Seat 1: Mailman911 ($1,224.20)
Seat 2: pr1nnyraid ($1,906.95)
Seat 3: Smart LAG ($2,220)
Seat 4: DMoogle ($1,000)
Seat 5: aaupscores12 ($0), is sitting out
Seat 6: Steam Roller ($1,141.20)
Mailman911 posts the small blind of $5
pr1nnyraid posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Smart LAG [4h Ah]
Smart LAG raises to $35
DMoogle folds
Steam Roller folds
Mailman911 folds
pr1nnyraid calls $25
*** FLOP *** [4c 7h Kd]
pr1nnyraid bets $60
Smart LAG has 15 seconds left to act
Smart LAG raises to $180
pr1nnyraid has 15 seconds left to act
pr1nnyraid calls $120
*** TURN *** [4c 7h Kd] [6d]
pr1nnyraid has 15 seconds left to act
pr1nnyraid bets $280

Re: i raise to what?
 

drop it like it's hot

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
he is 28/21 so i dont think he has many strong hands here, the strongest possible is 76. 77 probably 3bets flop. he might have AK or KQ i suppose and isnt planning on folding it.


[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure I completely agree with this logic? I can picture him having a lot of strong hands that are not folding.

Re: i raise to what?
 

Why would 77 3(4?) bet flop? No draws whatsoever so possibly best board to flat on. Do around 860 I guess if your intent on raising and your confident in your reads. Also, wouldn't AK always 3bet preflop, esp with your image.

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would 77 3(4?) bet flop? No draws whatsoever so possibly best board to flat on. Do around 860 I guess if your intent on raising and your confident in your reads. Also, wouldn't AK always 3bet preflop, esp with your image.

[/ QUOTE ]

You answered your own question... because he takes non-standard lines. Interested to see some other responses

Re: i raise to what?
 

Lots of better hands to semibluff with in this spot, I just fold. Also he looks strong to me, don't see why he couldn't play a set this way especially with all your overbetting shenanigans.

Re: i raise to what?
 

ok so 3 combinations of 77, 1 of 44.

Re: i raise to what?
 

i'd def give up here

Re: i raise to what?
 

I don't think his line as strong as everyone makes it out to be here, he's not some 17/15 reg

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
drop it like it's hot

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: i raise to what?
 

first hand is awesome

here, i dunno what legit hands outside of monsters you'd be happy to raise the turn with so unless you're jacking up QK-ish and stacking off in this spot i think he will read a raise for essentially what it is, 'f u', which is most likely why he leads here. ofc this assumes he actually has something... but i curse and muck

Re: i raise to what?
 

doesnt krantz play 100/200 and up?

Re: i raise to what?
 

Yeah

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think he will read a raise for essentially what it is, 'f u', which is most likely why he leads here.


[/ QUOTE ]
agreed. many of you are putting too much weight on what he could possibly have, when krantz likely already knows that hero knows that krantz "cant" be strong.

Re: i raise to what?
 

blah blah we can both handread.

Re: i raise to what?
 

fold, move on, next time the hand plays out like this and you have a good hand and you raise turn and he folds, then introduce bluffing in this situation imo, but for now im happy to fold and make a mental note.

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold, move on, next time the hand plays out like this and you have a good hand and you raise turn and he folds, then introduce bluffing in this situation imo, but for now im happy to fold and make a mental note.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have no paricular thoughts on this hand, and would think id have to be there to have anything constructive to say, but this is a really bad way to think about things.

its not like krantz is too stupid to realize that jfish is aware of history and its not like krantz doesnt realize this is a really non-standard line and its not like he doesnt have a very specific reason for doing it now that might not be the reason he does it later (if he does it at all).

Re: i raise to what?
 

hands like this often come down to levels for me, but...

his turn bet really seems like he is trying to induce a raise here...i would let it go (i think he saw through the flop raise)

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]


his turn bet really seems like he is trying to induce a raise here...i would let it go (i think he saw through the flop raise)

[/ QUOTE ]

thats quite a contradiction.

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold, move on, next time the hand plays out like this and you have a good hand and you raise turn and he folds, then introduce bluffing in this situation imo, but for now im happy to fold and make a mental note.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have no paricular thoughts on this hand, and would think id have to be there to have anything constructive to say, but this is a really bad way to think about things.

its not like krantz is too stupid to realize that jfish is aware of history and its not like krantz doesnt realize this is a really non-standard line and its not like he doesnt have a very specific reason for doing it now that might not be the reason he does it later (if he does it at all).

[/ QUOTE ]

ive written out a couple of paragraphs but it's sounded stupid so ill go for this instead:

as you say this a non-standard line = hard to apply a hand range.

we are looking for fold equity with a raise, which is formed applying our hand range.

given we do not know his hand range instead to gauge our fold equity we have to mentally note the frequency of him making this play and how he reacts to aggression by us by raising -> fold and wait till either we have a good hand or we think his frequency is too high of this line so we raise with junk. i wouldnt want to raise now if he never does this for the next 200 hands. i would want to raise this if he does it often when i raise pf and raise his lead on flop.

sorry if that's a dumb format to reply in but thought easiest (shotgun nobody do a fyp and change 'format to reply' to 'post')

i just figure if we cant apply a hand range now, then we have to wait until we can.

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]

given we do not know his hand range instead to gauge our fold equity we have to mentally note the frequency of him making this play and how he reacts to aggression by us by raising -> fold and wait till either we have a good hand or we think his frequency is too high of this line so we raise with junk. i wouldnt want to raise now if he never does this for the next 200 hands. i would want to raise this if he does it often when i raise pf and raise his lead on flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

and all im saying is that krantz is gonna know this is what you are thinking... its not like its not super obvious that if he takes this same exact like 5 times in the next half hour you are gonna bluff raise the turn at some point.

you want to be bluffing him when he's not expecting it.

Re: i raise to what?
 

i agree xorbie, you said
[ QUOTE ]
have to be there to have anything constructive to say

[/ QUOTE ]

and that is exactly that problem here. imo so long as jfish is applying the correct frequency of folding/raising etc and keep adapting to krantz, then it'll be fine. given we weren't there my thought was wait and till you can get a better hand range and then act accordingly.

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
hands like this often come down to levels for me, but...

his turn bet really seems like he is trying to induce a raise here...i would let it go

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: i raise to what?
 

alright i did fold but i hit time and thought about it for a while. it is nice to know that you guys are all scared money tho!!!

Re: i raise to what?
 

[ QUOTE ]
it is nice to know that you guys are all scared money tho!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: i raise to what?
 

he's got KQ and probably isnt planning to fold it. maybe. deeper stacks make it more interesting.