X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

In Case You don't read BBV, this is important information:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12097244

And:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...p;vc=1&nt=3

And:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12075548


Cliffs Notes:

High Stakes Absolute Poker Player can see opponents hole cards, probably through a "super user" account rumored to exist on AP. This player has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few hundred hands, playing 96/70, with an infinite river aggression factor. No this is not a level. No this is not a crazy "Online Poker is rigged conspiracy theory," pretty much every high stakes and reputable poster on 2+2 who has weighed in on the evidence agrees.

Usernames are Graycat and Doubledrag and Potripper.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

to long didn't read

is one of them mark seif?lol

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

that is nuts.... what was absolute's response if any?

too long to read... cliff notes sums it up well (at least the first few pages)

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
that is nuts.... what was absolute's response if any?

too long to read... cliff notes sums it up well (at least the first few pages)

[/ QUOTE ]


someone sent a link of one of these posts to ap and they just denied that anyone was cheating

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

if he could see cards, why would he play 90/80 bla bla chow meow

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

bla bla chow meow

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

I knew I was actually a winning player but was being cheated this whole time!

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he could see cards, why would he play 90/80 bla bla chow meow

[/ QUOTE ]Cause he's bad

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
if he could see cards, why would he play 90/80 bla bla chow meow

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it would make you the best post-flop player in history?

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

There will be no response is my guess. If they fix the problem and admit to a problem in the first place then you have a bigger problem.

If I were them I would try to sweep it under the rug...

This might kill online poker.

We need to either end online poker or regulate it.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

We don't need to end [censored].

I wonder if that guy is nervous about any possible recourse against him...He seemed to not care if everyone knows but he has stolen a lot of money in front of a lot of witnesses.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

""also fyi, this is (obv) an HSNL/limit issue at this time and no one playing below 100/200 needs to worry. ""

I had to laugh at this. Yes its obv. that there is only one person that can see hole cards and he/she is only doing it at 100/200 and above....

Again, why is it obvious?

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

agreed. if one person is doing it playing 88VP or whatever at 100/200 then why would it be so impossible for someone else to do something similar at 15/30 but do it more intelligently by playing more normally so as not to be so easily detected.

Someone out there could actually be smart enough to realize that by NOT playing perfectly, playing 25VP or something more normal and even occasionally losing a hand including calling-down with the worst hand just for show then they could continue to fleece this thing forever possibly without being detected.

I hate to give these tips for some idiot out there who might be reading. But it's true and it should be totally obvious and it's possible somebody is out there doing something like this already.

IF it is true that somebody at 100/200 can see hole-cards then there is zero reason to trust the other stakes on that site AT ALL.
Although I think I would be more comfortable playing 1/2 or 2/4 limit on there. Anybody who could see the hole-cards would almost have to be playing higher than that I would think.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

I am not a person who panics or is paranoid at all... But if I knew it was possible for anybody playing to see other people's hole cards illegally, I would never play another hand on that site.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

lol@2p2 being the 'face' of the online poker police

people have been saying this for years and Im pretty sure they ust got abuse thrown at them

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
that is nuts.... what was absolute's response if any?

too long to read... cliff notes sums it up well (at least the first few pages)

[/ QUOTE ]


someone sent a link of one of these posts to ap and they just denied that anyone was cheating

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an obvious and predictable initial reaction, IMO it will be interesing to see how they respond to the alleged cheating in their games.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

If you picked up a 'super user account' would you play 96/70? seriously, how stupid do people get? The hands that I have seen are so blatantly obvious..

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

is this for real? link to comment by absolute?

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

I don't play anywhere close to those limits, but what I've read on here has really lead me to believe it to be true. A lot of very smart and observant poker players are actually agreeing with this theory.

I have a theory about why they would play 90/70 though. If you killed everyone playing 25/18, you may have a really tough time getting people to want to sit with you. But at 90/70 they figure "we play like fish, and they'll always want to get into a game with us". Just looks like they aren't doing it too well (in terms of making it believable).

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you picked up a 'super user account' would you play 96/70? seriously, how stupid do people get? The hands that I have seen are so blatantly obvious..

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess its good they werent smart about it, so they didnt win any more $$.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you picked up a 'super user account' would you play 96/70? seriously, how stupid do people get? The hands that I have seen are so blatantly obvious..

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess its good they werent smart about it, so they didnt win any more $$.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya but nothing stops them from making 2-3 new accounts that may be smarter this time. You can basically never trust the site again...

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

I think a sticky should be made on every poker related forum....at least until there is a suitable response from AP.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

i honestly can't get over how many people actually believe there are super accounts

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
i honestly can't get over how many people actually believe there are super accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I know for a fact that other sites have used them. I'm not going to name names, but in the boom there were online casinos with poker sites that for sure used them. At the conferences in vegas when the 24 year old kids from those places would get 2 bottles of goose in them, you'd hear the stories. I just never thought any of the big players would still be doing it. But I promise you this idea of a person who can see the cards is not some fantasy.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
i honestly can't get over how many people actually believe there are super accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I'll trade you my AP money for some Stars or FTP money.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i honestly can't get over how many people actually believe there are super accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I'll trade you my AP money for some Stars or FTP money.

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't win on any site why would i play poker

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i honestly can't get over how many people actually believe there are super accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I'll trade you my AP money for some Stars or FTP money.

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't win on any site why would i play poker

[/ QUOTE ]

The games will be good, most of the biggest winners on AP are all quitting the site, even with the fact they've won money on it. You'll have a good shot.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

I don't think it is so much that the potripper/graycat/doubledrag accounts themselves have always been superaccounts from AB with the ability to see holecards. These accounts have been huge losers in the past.
Could have been accounts AB ppl used to chipdump and also keep high stakes players happy. Employees dump AB revenue into these accounts and dump off to 3rd party personal accounts.

Someone proposed that it is more likely that there is an account that can observe and see all of the holecards but cannot play. This used in conjunction with the doubledrag accounts would make sense but why the blatant abuse directly after an update? It is possible that the update created the rabbit cam it might be coincidence. The behavior exhibited by these accounts is pretty much what I would expect from some introverted support/tech nerd with no common sense and a very basic understanding of poker. He gets caught then tries to emulate his play style but in a losing fashion much like an amateur theif will try to cover up a crime. This really looks like an inside job or rogue employee(s) gone wrong but AB will have to come forward for anything definitive.

The reason I don't think it could be a hacker/trojan is that the accounts clearly had large amounts of money before the update. Some rich whale who donks around wouldn't be hacking computers most likely. A bot maker who went into hacking AB might have the capital to fund the accounts but would have a good enough understanding of poker not to just blow it. A hacker smart enough to crack the site might blow it due to a misunderstanding of the game but the chances of this seem very low because its almost common sense to milk something like this.

One thing that is for sure though is that these 3 accounts could see holecards, they took full advantage for as long as they could, they then dumped the money.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

interesting stuff......

I haven't read much but I'll have to once I get back from my meeting.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

i haven't seen this posted anywhere else so...

From thepokerdb.com

MTT results for Greytcat
9 MTT sat tourneys entered 2 wins

MTT results for Pottripper
4 MTTs entered 1 win for $30,000

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

online poker is shades

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

Why just the hole cards? Why not see the hole flop? Are each card randomly choosen for the flop then turn then river? Why couldn't they see everthing?

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

Bump. Why is this, and the numerous other threads in the different forums on the same subject, not getting more attention? The mods at 2+2 are making serious posts about cheating at Absolute Poker. This is serious sh*t.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i honestly can't get over how many people actually believe there are super accounts

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case I'll trade you my AP money for some Stars or FTP money.

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't win on any site why would i play poker

[/ QUOTE ]

The games will be good, most of the biggest winners on AP are all quitting the site, even with the fact they've won money on it. You'll have a good shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

playing in good games hasn't done much for me this year

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bump. Why is this, and the numerous other threads in the different forums on the same subject, not getting more attention? The mods at 2+2 are making serious posts about cheating at Absolute Poker. This is serious sh*t.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

I think the hope is that people just leave Absolute, and rely on more reputable sites from now on.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bump. Why is this, and the numerous other threads in the different forums on the same subject, not getting more attention? The mods at 2+2 are making serious posts about cheating at Absolute Poker. This is serious sh*t.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because everyone in the past who brought up allegations of cheating/foul play in online poker, has always been shot down, shunned, and mocked by any poker forum... Why is this one any different?

Nothing will be done about it either way... We'll all forget this happened and go on playing on sites we ASSUME are safer, but are probably doing the same things...

Where are the tin foil hat pictures btw?

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bump. Why is this, and the numerous other threads in the different forums on the same subject, not getting more attention? The mods at 2+2 are making serious posts about cheating at Absolute Poker. This is serious sh*t.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because everyone in the past who brought up allegations of cheating/foul play in online poker, has always been shot down, shunned, and mocked by any poker forum... Why is this one any different?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because this time the people making these claims actually have a brain.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

What phazes me is that I have honestly always believed that online poker was legit. Now I know it has been compromised. I would like to believe that this was an isolated incident at AP involving a breach in security but we are likely never to know. At this point I will obviously keep playin online poker as will most people. However, for people coming into this game in the future if they hear this story I can almost guarantee they will not get involved. For all the fish that say "it's rigged" they don't really know its rigged or truly believe that but it is their scapegoat for losing. Now they can be 100% sure and that may keep them out of games.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

I think the only solution is for everyone to leave Absolute. Given that all of these sites are all offshore with no regulatory oversight, the only way for players to ensure that the games are legit is to monitor this sort of thing collectively themselves and move $ off of sites that have recognized security breaches and do nothing about it. The worst outcome is for nothing to come of this - smarter cheaters who may have the access to the same breaches as these cheaters will just continue to cheat, but will do it smartly so it is not as obvious. If people do not have faith in the legitimacy of the games, they will take their money to the live casinos instead.

Re: X-Post Absolute Poker Hole Card Cheating
 

Hopefully this doesn't affect Ultimate Bet.