$1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

In Vegas, for the last couple of weeks, I'm finding the games have gotten very weak/tight. 5 or 6 to a flop if it's unraised, but folding all around to a 2 redbird raise ($12 to go). This is really a change from the normal call anything games preflop/fold to pressure post-flop.

The problem is it's much harder to make any money because it's a bitch to build a pot. Taking down $25 pots isn't going to cut it, given the variance.

Any other locals finding this to be the case, or is it just my imagination again, running away with me?

CJ

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Where do you play? MGM last July had just amazing action at 1/2... my friend and I's favorite room. We'll be in town the 11-15th of this month and will probably play primarily there.

While in town in July we also played at Ceasers a few times and their 1/2 seemed a lot more solid. Could just be due to random table selection though.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Though I agree that the NL has changed (in a broad sense) in the past couple weeks, not all changes are bad. With this Rodeo group in town, the number of drinken cowboys has gone through the roof, which has improved some games.

The other night at TI, there were 5 weak tights at the table, 1 loose passive, myself, and two cowboys drunk off their asses, spewing chips, making the entire session profitable.

I think it is a fair balance.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

I was gonna ask, where are the cowboys in Vegas this week? Ran into a couple at Rio on Friday night, one of whom was trying VERY VERY hard to give away all his chips, but instead he managed to build 'em into a giant mound of about $1500. I saw one in the entire room at Rio Saturday night and he didn't look drunk or stupid. So apparently NFR fans aren't hanging out at Rio.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

There were a large amount at TI (nowhere near as many as Sam's Town, but more then the average Strip casino).

I wonder if Sam's Town is able to keep a NL going consistently with this Rodeo in town. I know that back in 2004, they were able to keep one going most nights during it.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Poker has exploded much more since 2004 wouldn't you say? (all the additional live rooms, attendance at WSOP, far more online-poker commercials and sign-ups) so I would think that if it was active there in 2004 it should really be hopping now.


LOL at thinking of 2004 almost as the 'old days' but things have changing pretty quickly.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

The 1-2 NL at the Venetian is full of calling stations and drunks and action players. Many people seem willing
to put their stack in on a draw on the flop (like a 4 flush) against a flopped 2 pair or set.

Easy to beat

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
The 1-2 NL at the Venetian is full of calling stations and drunks and action players. Many people seem willing
to put their stack in on a draw on the flop (like a 4 flush) against a flopped 2 pair or set.

Easy to beat

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah? Not this past week. You must have either (a) hit the one lucky table/day or (b) don't know what you're talking about.

I've played at CP, V, Ballys and ManBay this past two weeks. All have been weak/tight. Couldn't actually say which was worst. And I've yet to have any cowboys sit down at a table I've been at. (Been wondering about that, too.)

CJ

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]

I've played at CP, V, Ballys and ManBay this past two weeks. All have been weak/tight. Couldn't actually say which was worst. CJ

[/ QUOTE ]

What days of the week? I'm heading out this weekend (12/9 thru 12/12) and hoping to play Sat & Sun for sure. I expect a Mon or Tues in December to be slow but hoping for some action on the weekend.

Guess I'd be surprised if it's bad on the weekend nights....unpleasantly surprised.

I'm also a low limit (1-2, maybe 2-5) NL roller who will target some of the same places you listed, plus MGM & Bellagio.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

When in doubt, hit up Bally's on graveyard.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

you ever consider changing up your playing style to accomodate the opposition?

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

I know its not Vegas, but i just got back from a weekend in Biloxi and must say that I've NEVER played in NL games as good as those. Even at $1/$2 NL there was $50-$100 in the pot preflop ~ 50% of the time. Someone would pre-flop raise to $20 and get 6 callers. Stuff like this happened on a very consistant basis.

There could be 5 people in a $200 pot and the board could have had four to a straight, three to a flush, and be paired and the 1st to act would push all in for ~$500 more with his top pair. Not on a bluff, but b/c they thought that there hand was that good.

Absolute insanity....I loved it!

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

"The 1-2 NL at the Venetian is full of calling stations and drunks and action players. Many people seem willing
to put their stack in on a draw on the flop (like a 4 flush) against a flopped 2 pair or set."


I agree from what I saw in my NL game at the Venetian last night (late night). YMMV.

Best of luck,

Howard

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know its not Vegas, but i just got back from a weekend in Biloxi and must say that I've NEVER played in NL games as good as those. Even at $1/$2 NL there was $50-$100 in the pot preflop ~ 50% of the time. Someone would pre-flop raise to $20 and get 6 callers. Stuff like this happened on a very consistant basis.

There could be 5 people in a $200 pot and the board could have had four to a straight, three to a flush, and be paired and the 1st to act would push all in for ~$500 more with his top pair. Not on a bluff, but b/c they thought that there hand was that good.

Absolute insanity....I loved it!

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.

I was there from Thanksgiving to November 30, and it was absolutely ridonkulous.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

you probably just picked the wrong place to play for a short span. anyone who thinks live small stakes NL is anything but a cash cow is nuts.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
"The 1-2 NL at the Venetian is full of calling stations and drunks and action players. Many people seem willing
to put their stack in on a draw on the flop (like a 4 flush) against a flopped 2 pair or set."


I agree from what I saw in my NL game at the Venetian last night (late night). YMMV.

Best of luck,

Howard

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's the time of day? When you have to get up 5 days a week at 4:30 a.m., late night is tough. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've just seen a trend toward really weak/tight play since the summer. Many will see the flop for a limp, but fold to any raises.

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone push and call.

(Adjustments only go so far. Adjust too much and you're playing unprofitable hands, too loose too, and donking off a lot of chips.)

CJ

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Nope. It's the "2+2 fish pond" game, which is much like the unicorn. Often posted about, but seldom seen in real life.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]

(Adjustments only go so far. Adjust too much and you're playing unprofitable hands, too loose too, and donking off a lot of chips.)


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't change your starting hand req's, change your standard raise to $9 instead of $12, or even $8.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

I only play weekends... but the games were fairly fishy for me this weekend, Aladdin had a bunch of idiots calling any PF raise and if it was passive preflop they were more than happy to go broke with top pair. I did see cowboys at Harrah's FRI/SAT night, the Sun. game was much more passive but FRI/SAT night it was fishy as ever for me.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
There were a large amount at TI (nowhere near as many as Sam's Town, but more then the average Strip casino).

I wonder if Sam's Town is able to keep a NL going consistently with this Rodeo in town. I know that back in 2004, they were able to keep one going most nights during it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I live right by sams town but never bothered to even check because they only ever have limit running.
Maybe i'll get a chance to check it out later tonight if the woman lets me be free [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nope. It's the "2+2 fish pond" game, which is much like the unicorn. Often posted about, but seldom seen in real life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad someone else recognizes this phenomenon. Of course, there's selection bias in the games people choose to post about, but still.

I don't think the unicorn is "often posted about," though, so maybe not a great simile.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

i couldn't agree more with classic "fish pond"....

i mean, people on here acted like online games (non-micro$$$) were still 6-7 to the flop, when a good pre-flop # was closer to 25%.... now no way B&M goes that root, but the schools of ludicrously bad fish doesn't seem to exist anymore, at least not 3-4 of them at the same table.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"The 1-2 NL at the Venetian is full of calling stations and drunks and action players. Many people seem willing
to put their stack in on a draw on the flop (like a 4 flush) against a flopped 2 pair or set."


I agree from what I saw in my NL game at the Venetian last night (late night). YMMV.

Best of luck,

Howard

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's the time of day? When you have to get up 5 days a week at 4:30 a.m., late night is tough. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I've just seen a trend toward really weak/tight play since the summer. Many will see the flop for a limp, but fold to any raises.

I can't remember the last time I saw anyone push and call.

(Adjustments only go so far. Adjust too much and you're playing unprofitable hands, too loose too, and donking off a lot of chips.)

CJ

[/ QUOTE ]

Run their a**es over. If you pound on them enough eventually they're going to tilt off their stacks out of anger. Just keep stealing small pots from them in position. Honestly weak tight games are almost as good as loose-crazy games and are going to have a lot less variance. This thread makes me want to go play right now.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

1/2nl live is rigged

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Run their a**es over. If you pound on them enough eventually they're going to tilt off their stacks out of anger. Just keep stealing small pots from them in position. Honestly weak tight games are almost as good as loose-crazy games and are going to have a lot less variance. This thread makes me want to go play right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got this same advice yesterday from Barry Tannenbaum. Exactly. He said pound them until they get tired of it and start to stand up, then shift gears. He said everyone is trying to trap these days. He said be very aggro, and if someone plays back at you, don't pay them off. Be willing to give up a $30 or $40 pot so they pay off the big ones when you got a hand.

Interesting conversation. We'll see this weekend if I can turn it into a profitable one.

CJ

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

CJ, you couldnt play LAG if your life depended on it.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-twelver

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
CJ, you couldnt play LAG if your life depended on it.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-twelver

[/ QUOTE ]

Who asked you??? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I'm gonna try. Gotta try. Old dog needs to learn new tricks. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Last night the 1/2 game at Caesars LV was hardly weak tight. There were certainly some guys who didn't just flail around with their chips, but the game was still decent to good.

By the way, a dealer there got upset when I started relaying what I had read on 2+2 about the guy who got called all in and ran off with his chips/got arrested. Strange.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Less posting, more gambling sir.

[img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

Towards the end of last summer I was in Vegas for about 5 days (over the course of a weekend + Monday/Tues) and spent the majority of my time at Ceasars. The 1/2 game there is deepstacked so you can buy up to a max of $500. It was great becuase I would go there around 6PM when the tables started to fill and check them out for a while. A lot of the players don't know how to play with deepstacks so it turned out to be very profitable. I can imagine that earlier in the day it might be tough to find a good table but if you just wait and check it out for like 30 mins you can easily find one at night.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
i couldn't agree more with classic "fish pond"....

i mean, people on here acted like online games (non-micro$$$) were still 6-7 to the flop, when a good pre-flop # was closer to 25%.... now no way B&M goes that root, but the schools of ludicrously bad fish doesn't seem to exist anymore, at least not 3-4 of them at the same table.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you kidding? 1/2 at the Orleans or Mandalay Bay, Mirage...it's ridiculously loose and action-oriented. And the $2/5 at the Palms is about as good a game there is (on the weekends - the weekdays tend to have a few too many pros)

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
Last night the 1/2 game at Caesars LV was hardly weak tight. There were certainly some guys who didn't just flail around with their chips, but the game was still decent to good.

By the way, a dealer there got upset when I started relaying what I had read on 2+2 about the guy who got called all in and ran off with his chips/got arrested. Strange.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to Vegas soon and I haven't played in the Caesar's poker room before so I was planning on checking it out. But after reading that story about them allowing someone to run off with someone else's chips then I'm not too keen on playing there.

Maybe that could have happened somewhere else too but I really don't think that Caesar's handled that situation well.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to Vegas soon and I haven't played in the Caesar's poker room before so I was planning on checking it out. But after reading that story about them allowing someone to run off with someone else's chips then I'm not too keen on playing there.

Maybe that could have happened somewhere else too but I really don't think that Caesar's handled that situation well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't like how that was handled, you REALLY shouldn't come play anywhere in Vegas--I don't think you'd get a better result anywhere else. Caesars did everything they possibly could be asked to do. I'd bet in most places the floor would not have chased the guy down and brought him back...once out the door, the guy woulda been free and clear. Caesars did great. Demanding they make good on the cheat's bet is asking too much.

It's also very possible Caesars has or will reimburse the victim of that story at some point. The story ain't over. If they DO reimburse him, they'll probably ask him to not relay that info to anyone since they REALLY don't want word spreading that they'll cover such things...it's too easy to cheat 'em if they do.

And I've mentioned that story at CP and was told by the dealer that they've all been told not to talk about it. Which is understandable. You can talk to your fellow players, just don't expect the dealer to chime in.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

By point of reference I saw something similar last week at Casino Arizona, although the amount involved was far smaller. Without going into detail of the incident, floor ruled that a player must put a bet into the pot. It was a pot the player knew he would lose at that point. The player refused, and the floor booted him for the night. This was only twelve dollars, but the concept is the same. The casino sees it as one player welching on a bet with another player. Unless the chips make it to the center of the table, you can't count on being able to win them.

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
CJ, you couldnt play LAG if your life depended on it.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-twelver

[/ QUOTE ]

CJ broke the 10% VPIP barrier once... once...

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CJ, you couldnt play LAG if your life depended on it.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-twelver

[/ QUOTE ]

CJ broke the 10% VPIP barrier once... once...

[/ QUOTE ]

I routinely break 15%, thank you very much.

signed,

rocky

Re: $1/$2NL--weak/tighties now
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
CJ, you couldnt play LAG if your life depended on it.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-twelver

[/ QUOTE ]

CJ broke the 10% VPIP barrier once... once...

[/ QUOTE ]

I routinely break 15%, thank you very much.

signed,

rocky

[/ QUOTE ]

15.0001??? Way to use position chief... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]