400NL Argh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn!
 

Villain is 18/8/1.6 over 100 hands or so and more or less unknown.

Ongame Poker No Limit Hold'Em, $2/$4 (8 handed).

SB ($394)
BB ($339)
UTG ($405)
Villain/UTG+1 ($394)
MP1 ($340)
MP2 ($377)
CO ($188)
Hero/BTN ($465)


Preflop: Hero is BTN with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG folds, Villain raises to $18, 3 folds, Hero raises to $40, 2 folds, Villain calls.

Flop: ($86) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets $70, Villain calls.

Turn: ($226) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain bets $284 and is all-in. Hero?

WTF? Up until this push on the turn, I figured Villain for a pair in the 99-KK range. I thought AK was less likely for obvious reasons, although clearly not impossible.

Anyway, I’m left with two moves on the turn, but which one’s better? Does the fact I don’t have the Ac make a difference?

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

Call, preflop sucks.

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

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Call, preflop sucks.

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Err, right. Anyone who fancies adding some reasoning is very welcome to post. I do suck, but I'd like to know why... [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

PF sucked cos it was basically a min raise. His range to call a min raise is huge, and it includes SC's and small PP's, which could have u crushed at this point.

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

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Call, preflop sucks.

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Raise more preflop.

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

Really? So if the range is between doubling his raise (ie another $28, making it $46 to go) or raising the pot (ie another $42, making it $60 to go), what's standard? I've clearly been missing something...

Incidentally, I don't think a player with these numbers is raising in EP w small pairs or SCs. If that is the case, and he has a pair in the 99-KK range, doesn't it make more sense to err on the low side of the raise size to make sure we keep him in a hand that he could easily go broke on with a flop of undercards...

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really? So if the range is between doubling his raise (ie another $28, making it $46 to go) or raising the pot (ie another $42, making it $60 to go), what's standard? I've clearly been missing something...

Incidentally, I don't think a player with these numbers is raising in EP w small pairs or SCs. If that is the case, and he has a pair in the 99-KK range, doesn't it make more sense to err on the low side of the raise size to make sure we keep him in a hand that he could easily go broke on with a flop of undercards...

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I don't think your avg. villian goes broke with 99 here on a 2,7,8 flop when you minraise pre.

If you minraise pre and are going to felt any flop and it only costs him $28 then he should call with anything he raises PF.

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Really? So if the range is between doubling his raise (ie another $28, making it $46 to go) or raising the pot (ie another $42, making it $60 to go), what's standard? I've clearly been missing something...

Incidentally, I don't think a player with these numbers is raising in EP w small pairs or SCs. If that is the case, and he has a pair in the 99-KK range, doesn't it make more sense to err on the low side of the raise size to make sure we keep him in a hand that he could easily go broke on with a flop of undercards...

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Usually triple or quadruple their bet size. I think you're underestimating his raising range. 18/8 probably raises some small pocket pairs in EP. Suited connectors are less likely, but big suited cards are quite possible. 100 hands is not a very large sample, either. FWIW, I think you're toast on the turn, although smaller overpairs with one club could be in his range.

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn
 

Think of it like this: Your preflop raise is $22 to call and the effective remaining stacks are $354. In that case I'm taking a flop with all pairs, all suited connectors and suited gappers and probably non-suited connectors. Actually there are few hands I'm folding TBH.

Re: Aaargghh - AA on the button and some idiot just shoved on the turn!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Err, right. Anyone who fancies adding some reasoning is very welcome to post. I do suck, but I'd like to know why...



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Your 3 bet is to small because it gives the villain a chance to call with a large range, in hopes he will stack you. Your 3 bet should have been somewhere between $60-$70