Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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You have, if I may say so, a very citified definition of outdoorsman. Any of those activities, once a month?

As someone who goes for long walks in the woods on a weekly basis, and goes on several weekend camping trips every summer.. I feel my own claim to "outdoorsman" is pretty shabby. I pale in comparison to the people who go to two-week-long hunting trips in the middle of nowhere every summer, or who head for the hills Friday afternoon every weekend all summer, or who live in cabins outside town and chop their own firewood all winter.

I would prefer to see your "once a month or more" category split about three ways, and perhaps the quarter/year choices combined.

I speculate you will find a mild correlation between outdoor activity and theism. I don't think this implies causation - but rather, that the more academic/intellectual types, who are drawn more to atheism, will also be more occupied with cards, computer games, reading, attending conferences, and whatnot, and have less time for the outdoors.

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I don't disagree. The definition of an outdoorman is open to a wide range of interpretations. I can see people doing many of those activities more than once a month. I live in Florida and in the last month, for example, I went for a long hike in the Everglades, and went boating twice (once to go fishing). I have a tendency to reside somewhere remote for extended periods of time (a month under a tarp in Southern Utah for example) also.

Your last statement is what I getting at. I personally don't fit that mold as I have a couple of computers and a library of books to rely on. I also have a technical career. I say that, knowing full well, that I am not an intellectual.

I think you are correct when you say that there is a correlation between theism and outdoor activity.

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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I pale in comparison to the people who go to two-week-long hunting trips in the middle of nowhere every summer

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hunting season is not open in the summer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

Well, brad, I guess everyone here already knows I've been in Alaska a long time...hehe... our caribou season opens in August and moose season is first half of September. But yes, in the rest of the West hunting is usually October and November - and I have no idea when it's open south of the Mason-Dixon line.

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

Regardless of the poll results, there's surely a correlation here as atheists are more common in urban areas, where "outdoorsmen" (do people actually use that word any more?) are uncommon for obvious reasons. When I lived in Boone, NC I got out often. Now in Brooklyn, with no vehicle and little money, the best I can do is walk my dogs in the park or along the waterfront.

This suggests nothing about, say, appreciation of nature's splendor. Which is, I assume, your angle - "people who spend time in the outdoors see God's beauty and so they believe and blah blah blah irrational."

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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Regardless of the poll results, there's surely a correlation here as atheists are more common in urban areas, where "outdoorsmen" (do people actually use that word any more?) are uncommon for obvious reasons.

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The normal correlation to expect would be the one between education level and religion. The higher your education the more likely it becomes that you live in a urban setting.
Even if the the education level were only slightly different ( hard to see how it could be given job opportunities for PhD's or similar), the opportunity factor will accent it. When you live in Hawaii you do much more ocean related activities than when you live in Denver, atheist-smatheist.

luckyme

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

That's getting a bit deep, and I don't think it's possible to isolate the variables (wealth is a big one that hasn't been mentioned yet), but education and atheism aren't exactly independent...

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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Which is, I assume, your angle - "people who spend time in the outdoors see God's beauty and so they believe and blah blah blah irrational."

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It is amazing the sheer numbers of arrogant jerks you find on the Internet.

I put up a simple poll because I was curious about the topic and you feel you need to add the above.

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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I think you are correct when you say that there is a correlation between theism and outdoor activity.


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How so? And do you think you've shown it with the poll.

And please explain this... let me give you my lengthy answer:
(1) When I was young I was Lutheran. Our family camped a lot so I spent a lot of time doing outdoorish activities.
(2) In college, I did a lot of soul searching and began to doubt my religion. In the beginning of my college career, I was at a campus with a lot of country/wilderness. Though my faith was waning, it was at this period that I probably spent the most time doing stuff outdoors - walks, hikes, camping, etc.
(3) Early years post college - Definitely an atheist. But lived in NYC. So I spent less time camping because I now had a job and lived in the city. It didn't help that I didn't have a car.
(4) 8 years back - started dating woman in Massachussetts. We did a lot of vacationing together. A lot of camping and renting cabins at places like Lake George. Lots of outdoorsy stuff. I'm still an atheist. She's basically agnostic.
(5) After she moved to NY - we spent cumulatively less time outdoors because we both lived in city. We still went camping perhaps twice a year. Still don't believe in God.
(6) We now live in CT and I commute to NY. I walk dog everyday in a beautiful park on the bay. Spend weekends in park quite often. Really enjoy the outdoors though somewhat casually since I have an infant and spend a lot more time at work... Still an atheist.

If you could just suggest how my belief and subsequent lack of belief about God can be correlated to my outdoor activity (obviously separating other factors like where I live, free time, money, etc.) it would be appreciated.

I think you're on to something.

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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I think you are correct when you say that there is a correlation between theism and outdoor activity.


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How so? And do you think you've shown it with the poll.

And please explain this... let me give you my lengthy answer:
(1) When I was young I was Lutheran. Our family camped a lot so I spent a lot of time doing outdoorish activities.
(2) In college, I did a lot of soul searching and began to doubt my religion. In the beginning of my college career, I was at a campus with a lot of country/wilderness. Though my faith was waning, it was at this period that I probably spent the most time doing stuff outdoors - walks, hikes, camping, etc.
(3) Early years post college - Definitely an atheist. But lived in NYC. So I spent less time camping because I now had a job and lived in the city. It didn't help that I didn't have a car.
(4) 8 years back - started dating woman in Massachussetts. We did a lot of vacationing together. A lot of camping and renting cabins at places like Lake George. Lots of outdoorsy stuff. I'm still an atheist. She's basically agnostic.
(5) After she moved to NY - we spent cumulatively less time outdoors because we both lived in city. We still went camping perhaps twice a year. Still don't believe in God.
(6) We now live in CT and I commute to NY. I walk dog everyday in a beautiful park on the bay. Spend weekends in park quite often. Really enjoy the outdoors though somewhat casually since I have an infant and spend a lot more time at work... Still an atheist.

If you could just suggest how my belief and subsequent lack of belief about God can be correlated to my outdoor activity (obviously separating other factors like where I live, free time, money, etc.) it would be appreciated.

I think you're on to something.

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When you attended college, you lost your faith. From what you describe, you had significant experiences outdoors prior to, during, and after your education. I can't see any correlation. Quite possible that once you lost your faith, your outdoor pursuits only reaffirmed your new position somehow.

The poll is not valid, yet I have somewhat hedged on my original stance after viewing the results and seeing some of the responses. I am no bible thumper by any means. And I am not a fan of organized religion. I do however, believe in God and my experiences in the wild reinforce that belief. I thought I was on to something also, but I'm not sure I see it anymore.

Although, I do think (regardless of madnak's reply) it is hard to experience the wild and not believe that something greater than chance is responsible.

Re: SMP Outdoorsmen Poll
 

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Although, I do think (regardless of madnak's reply) it is hard to experience the wild and not believe that something greater than chance is responsible.

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Since there is virtually no chance exhibited in nature, that seems reasonable. Natural selection is as far from chance as things can get and still not be preprogrammed.

luckyme