Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

dont raise river
since you did...fold fast

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I'd bet flop and call river. I think he is bluffing lots here.

Edit: Obviously I mean call the first bet, and that the first bet is frequently a bluff. The 4-bet not so much [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

if villain is a really good thinking player...i would actually make a hero call on the river here.
if villain is a fish then meh...fold fast.
i would check the turn too.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

fwiw i would be the flop almost 100% of the time as the initial raiser with a hand like 78 that has no showdown value.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

The river raise is for value or bluff?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

this is a very confusing hand and when im confused and can beat AA i usually call. But unless this guy is crazy i think we have to fold here

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I like a call pre-flop, b/c we will be able to make him do bigger mistakes on flop and later streets.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I also think the river raise is gash

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason I don't mind a flop check is because this is a good flop for him to either bluff raise you because of the likely hood that it missed your hand as well or he likely has a hand that is willing to peel a card with while you have garbage). I also c-bet less then most on these boards and this seems like a good time to mix your play and bet ANY turn card. The fact that we hit it should not make a difference since we are folding to any c/r there regardless of us hitting the turn.

As played, I would not have raised the river bet. Fold to the shove. But if you had bet the turn, you would have gotten your desired 2 streets worth of value and not needed to force the action with this thin river raise.