Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I am a SS reg. BEt BEt BEt BEt BEt. Come on.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

Disclaimer: I play live only and mainly smaller stakes (moving up soon!)

Yes, this is a classic set up for c/r. But I would still rather bet out and either a) value pound out TPTK the rest of the hand, or b) if raised, 3 bet.

You could check this lousy flop and find it checked around, how would you feel then? Yes, you were smart enough to see a spot to be tricky and try to get a c/r, but so what? I'd rather make people face 2 cold to my 3 bet. Bet, bet, and bet again.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I can't see any reason to do anything other than bet.

Is this a serious question?

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

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I like c/r in this spot because it is likely Button will bet if everybody checks to him. I want to chase out UTG+1 with his two overcards, if possible. Even better if somebody also has a T.

And if it checks through it is no tragedy because even if a diamond hits the turn, somebody would have bet out their flush draw so you are probably still safe and now you face the field with a big bet. Of course it sucks if a J, Q, or K hits - but it is a relatively small pot anyway...

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Why is the button likely to bet? You know nothing about him. Letting this flop get checked through has to be terribly wrong.

Why let flush draws and overcards draw for free?

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

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I like c/r in this spot because it is likely Button will bet if everybody checks to him. I want to chase out UTG+1 with his two overcards, if possible. Even better if somebody also has a T.

And if it checks through it is no tragedy because even if a diamond hits the turn, somebody would have bet out their flush draw so you are probably still safe and now you face the field with a big bet. Of course it sucks if a J, Q, or K hits - but it is a relatively small pot anyway...

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Why is the button likely to bet? You know nothing about him. Letting this flop get checked through has to be terribly wrong.

Why let flush draws and overcards draw for free?

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I think he said the button is likely to bet because the button is likely to bet.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

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I think he said the button is likely to bet because the button is likely to bet.

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And you base that on what exactly? Ever played with passive people before? It's possible it gets checked through and that's a sin to me.

Are you really advocating that betting is not the clear (and only) choice on this flop vs. a table of unknowns? Come on ...

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

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I think he said the button is likely to bet because the button is likely to bet.

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And you base that on what exactly? Ever played with passive people before? It's possible it gets checked through and that's a sin to me.

Are you really advocating that betting is not the clear (and only) choice on this flop vs. a table of unknowns? Come on ...

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As I said in my first post, I would bet out, for all the reasons you and others have said.

However, in many of the games I play in I can almost guarantee that the button will bet (position betting, for no other reason). But this is because I don't usually play with a table of passive players. I don't think OP said it was a table of unknowns.

But almost always I would bet out because I don't want to take the risk that this will be checked around. Nevertheless, I find the general message, "for any thinking player this is an autobet", to be wrong. I don't agree that there is only one way to play this hand.

I think the goal is to protect this hand and get as many bets in as possible, particularly against players who are dominated or drawing dead.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I just stopped by to say I checkraise here all the time.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

Confucius say player cannot 3-bet flop unless he give other player chance to raise.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

For people to say you have to bet, keep an open mind. Yes, without any other given information, the default line would be to bet/3-bet. This would be an especially standard play at a passive table.

But let's suppose we add some more information:

(a) Button is a habitual position bettor. You have the option to check-raise.
(b) MP3 and button are both very aggressive. You have the option to check-raise.

With these two scenarios, you'll often pick up a bet or two you normally wouldn't get if you bet out, and you can encounter the field with a check-raise.

It sounds to me like there are some inflexible people out there. However, I do agree that check/call should not be considered in this spot.

Garland