IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

Starting March 2008 the IRS will require casinos to take withholding from any net tournament winnings over $5000.

This is a link to an article about the old procedures, but there is a link in the upper right of the page to today's new rules.
http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Artic...-debunking.htm

Shirley
http://www.poker-babes.com/

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

Isn't this something that The PPA should be strongly crying out about?

Where are they?

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't this something that The PPA should be strongly crying out about?

Where are they?

[/ QUOTE ]

They posted the article on their home page. They don't mention taking a position.

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

i'm curious, why is this a bad thing?

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm curious, why is this a bad thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO if the PPA is going to support taxation of on-line poker through the use of lisencing fees, it should demand some common sense changes to gambling taxation in return. Why agree in one respect and perhaps hope to change the bad law later?

Most people don't understand how badly F'ed up current taxation of poker is!

I have no problem with withholdings, and I can see that any position of the PPA that sounds reasonible must agree to have provisions so that the Federal and State governements can get their greedy grubby hands on any taxes currently due them under existing law.

But IMO, the PPA should make it clear that existing tax laws on poker make it very easy to create a much higher tax than is justified. You can have a loosing year or even a break-even year and owe a ton of tax under existing laws.

IMO our position should be, we have no problem paying taxes on real income, but strongly oppose paying taxes on phantom income.

If we do not address this issue at the begining, when the tax revenue calculations on lisencing and tax collection are formed, we will be in the position later of facing the arguement that we are "costing the US government money" or creating "tax-breaks" for poker players.

Any deal on regulation, lisencing, etc, is the only time to correct this problem, you wait and it's too late as the projected revenue stream will be spent at least two times over.


D$D

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm curious, why is this a bad thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO if the PPA is going to support taxation of on-line poker through the use of lisencing fees, it should demand some common sense changes to gambling taxation in return. Why agree in one respect and perhaps hope to change the bad law later?

Most people don't understand how badly F'ed up current taxation of poker is!

I have no problem with withholdings, and I can see that any position of the PPA that sounds reasonible must agree to have provisions so that the Federal and State governements can get their greedy grubby hands on any taxes currently due them under existing law.

But IMO, the PPA should make it clear that existing tax laws on poker make it very easy to create a much higher tax than is justified. You can have a loosing year or even a break-even year and owe a ton of tax under existing laws.

IMO our position should be, we have no problem paying taxes on real income, but strongly oppose paying taxes on phantom income.

If we do not address this issue at the begining, when the tax revenue calculations on lisencing and tax collection are formed, we will be in the position later of facing the arguement that we are "costing the US government money" or creating "tax-breaks" for poker players.

Any deal on regulation, lisencing, etc, is the only time to correct this problem, you wait and it's too late as the projected revenue stream will be spent at least two times over.


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you'll write to Congress and to the PPA to express that. It sounds like you'll make it clear that you wish to pay your taxes like everyone else, but that our taxes should be the same as everyone else's.

By the way, FoF has repeatedly tried to get the federal deduction for gambling losses eliminated, such that if you win $100,000 and lose $300,000, you may taxes on $100,000 in income. They say the deduction subsidizes an industry that "destroys America's families". [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]


I hope you'll write to Congress and to the PPA to express that. It sounds like you'll make it clear that you wish to pay your taxes like everyone else, but that our taxes should be the same as everyone else's.

By the way, FoF has repeatedly tried to get the federal deduction for gambling losses eliminated, such that if you win $100,000 and lose $300,000, you may taxes on $100,000 in income. They say the deduction subsidizes an industry that "destroys America's families". [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

We are likely never to win over the "sin tax" crowd. Yes I have made this position clear to the PPA, and will continue to do so. This is an educational crusade for me. Most US players don't know how truely horrible the current tax laws are. Currently with no withholding and no reporting, the only risk US players face is undocumented income from on-line withdraws.

So the issue for me is to educate as many players as I can, and hope my voice is heard by the lobbing arm of the PPA. IMO if we plant the seed when discussing lisencing, taxation, and regulation by making it clear we have no problem paying our FAIR share, but no more, we have a good shot at dealing with the issue as a whole.

This would be further supported by any wins in the "skills" arguements. We would then liken our arguement to stock, real estate, and similar "speculation" (really a risk reward arguement). This would be a best case senario for us as a poker carve-out rather than an accross the board change in gambling taxation, IMO, is about all we have to hope for in the current political climate.

IMO we need to embrace gambling causes that don't put us too far in that crowd to reap the general rewards, like the KY race, but keep our independence enough to not loose to the fears of unrestricted gambling. It will be a hard road to stay on, but there is enough of a logical foundation for us to at least to attempt to try it.


D$D

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

I would hope the AGA was on board as well. Money that goes to the IRS is beyond dead. But apparently they can't even get decent CTR laws/regs. God knows the two orgs should work together at some point.

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

John Pappas just sent me an email informing me that the PPA is committed to fighting this.

[ QUOTE ]
When I say fight, I mean attorneys, appeals and lawsuits. We have agreed to commit the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

PPA is heading in a new direction. New leadership and new digs....they still have to prove they'll do what they say, but I hope we'll all give them a chance and keep an open mind. After all, Pappas' transition period has been more productive than the past year was.

Re: IRS Withholding on US Tournament Winnings Starts in 2008
 

[ QUOTE ]
John Pappas just sent me an email informing me that the PPA is committed to fighting this.

[ QUOTE ]
When I say fight, I mean attorneys, appeals and lawsuits. We have agreed to commit the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

PPA is heading in a new direction. New leadership and new digs....they still have to prove they'll do what they say, but I hope we'll all give them a chance and keep an open mind. After all, Pappas' transition period has been more productive than the past year was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy I sure hope they don't spend much money on this one!

Of the 30,000,000 million poker players in the US how many play in live events where the buy-in is more than $5,000.00???

You can discount almost all on-line sites. Other than what 3-4 major events a year affecting no more than 20,000 players all who would have to file returns in the US and who were not professional gamblers who does this help?

Professional gamblers have to file quarterly estimates, this actually helps them with their paperwork! Non-US players perhaps have to check a box that they are not affected by the law or have to file to get a refund.

If you are winning $5,000 events you already have to among the very few of the entire PPA membership for this law to affect you. Yes as a step for poker players it is a negative in general, but it is not a fight that concerns the majority of the membership, any more than getting easier tax write offs for corporate jets is for most businesses.

I would hope that the PPA doesn't go overboard on this one!!! Unless it is part of an overall tax strategy it's a looser. Public relations wise for the PPA it is even worse!

What any half decent grassroots political hack like me could do with just the retainer any lawyer is going to get could have much better ROI for the whole membership!!!

Boy I hope John will reconsider this one...........


D$D