2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

I dont know enough yet about this guy, but he is suposed to be spewwy at times lol. But the thing is he knows who i am, and that im not stupid (or not lol). We need little over 30% equity to make this river call.. What range do we put him on on the river here? He plays 27/22 and doesnt 3bet light alot from the blinds. My image is also in 25/20 - 30/25 range. I was pretty active on this table.

The problem is, that this river card is kinda bad to bluff on right? I think its close but im just curious.


No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $800
Hero: $603
CO: $1030.10
Button: $794
SB: $1778.35
BB: $1253.80

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $16</font>, CO folds, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $62</font>, BB folds, Hero calls, Button folds.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($144, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $115</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($374, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($374, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $216</font>

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

he's putting you on roughly what you have and valuebetting that range. fold it.

also, you are amazing for racking up &gt;3500 posts since April [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

it obviously looks like a value bet for sure, so fold unless you guys have enough history where he could level you with a bluff here

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

lol yeah i guess i was right then. First i thought, omg bluff i call, when i thought better i came to same conclusion.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

This is a great spot to 'block bet' the turn in order to get a free showdown. If your turn bet gets raised it is an easy fold. If you are debating calling this sized bet, then wouldn't you be better off making it and have him debate it? And coming from you in position with a street left to act, he may be more hesitant to go forward. Lastly, it would be nice win or lose, to have this hand go to showdown to give you an idea of what type of hand he is playing like this. Good for future meta and what have you.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

thats my problem i sometimes just go on auto pilot and dont think about it. If i had thought about it i would folded prolly, but sometimes i want to make too big folds so wanted to check what MSNL thought of it. Good point about turn bet here.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
it obviously looks like a value bet for sure, so fold unless you guys have enough history where he could level you with a bluff here

[/ QUOTE ]

i could def bluff here, i also could have missed a turn c/r

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a great spot to 'block bet' the turn in order to get a free showdown. If your turn bet gets raised it is an easy fold. If you are debating calling this sized bet, then wouldn't you be better off making it and have him debate it? And coming from you in position with a street left to act, he may be more hesitant to go forward. Lastly, it would be nice win or lose, to have this hand go to showdown to give you an idea of what type of hand he is playing like this. Good for future meta and what have you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

Aislephive,

Please don't be a little bitch. If you disagree with what I say then say so. No need for that crap. That is all.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

what's ironic is that sort of style of posting is supposedly aislphive's biggest pet peeve

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

Hmm...

ikestoys 3 betting range (just guessing from his preflop stats): AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ

Flop: he could be betting with any of his PF range.

Turn: I think he would check with anything except JJ here. Maybe he was going for the C/R with AA, KK, QQ, 99, AQ, or KQ. Maybe he has just given up with AK, AJ, KJ.

to pokerstove we go...

TT vs range has 60% equity (WTF, though it would be lower), so call.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
Aislephive,

Please don't be a little bitch. If you disagree with what I say then say so. No need for that crap. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can bet/folding the turn possibly be good? Seriously. You're not getting called by worse that often, villain may bluff shove (doubtful but possible) over our bet. You're betting for no reason other than to protect against a hand that his 6 outs. That my friend is a bad bet.

[ QUOTE ]
what's ironic is that sort of style of posting is supposedly aislphive's biggest pet peeve

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not. My pet peeve is you making random comments directed at me in a douchey manner, like the one above.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm...

ikestoys 3 betting range (just guessing from his preflop stats): AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ

Flop: he could be betting with any of his PF range.

Turn: I think he would check with anything except JJ here. Maybe he was going for the C/R with AA, KK, QQ, 99, AQ, or KQ. Maybe he has just given up with AK, AJ, KJ.

to pokerstove we go...

TT vs range has 60% equity (WTF, though it would be lower), so call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never played with him, but I GUARANTEE that his 3-betting range is wider than that...

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aislephive,

Please don't be a little bitch. If you disagree with what I say then say so. No need for that crap. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can bet/folding the turn possibly be good? Seriously. You're not getting called by worse that often, villain may bluff shove (doubtful but possible) over our bet. You're betting for no reason other than to protect against a hand that his 6 outs. That my friend is a bad bet.

[ QUOTE ]
what's ironic is that sort of style of posting is supposedly aislphive's biggest pet peeve

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not. My pet peeve is you making random comments directed at me in a douchey manner, like the one above.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm flattered that I'm important enough in your life to be your biggest pet peeve.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Aislephive,

Please don't be a little bitch. If you disagree with what I say then say so. No need for that crap. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can bet/folding the turn possibly be good? Seriously. You're not getting called by worse that often, villain may bluff shove (doubtful but possible) over our bet. You're betting for no reason other than to protect against a hand that his 6 outs. That my friend is a bad bet.

[ QUOTE ]
what's ironic is that sort of style of posting is supposedly aislphive's biggest pet peeve

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not. My pet peeve is you making random comments directed at me in a douchey manner, like the one above.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm flattered that I'm important enough in your life to be your biggest pet peeve.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm...

ikestoys 3 betting range (just guessing from his preflop stats): AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ

Flop: he could be betting with any of his PF range.

Turn: I think he would check with anything except JJ here. Maybe he was going for the C/R with AA, KK, QQ, 99, AQ, or KQ. Maybe he has just given up with AK, AJ, KJ.

to pokerstove we go...

TT vs range has 60% equity (WTF, though it would be lower), so call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never played with him, but I GUARANTEE that his 3-betting range is wider than that...

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess that makes calling an even better option then.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

wow lots of pointless drama in this thread. im gonna go ahead and agree with what hotbacon said and fold without having history. the river bet looks so so much like valuetown that i think he would need to have some history of making smallish bets against you for you to call profitably here.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

Also, I never said, but I think this is a fold. You are getting value towned often like hotbacon, pdoran, et al said.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm...

ikestoys 3 betting range (just guessing from his preflop stats): AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ

Flop: he could be betting with any of his PF range.

Turn: I think he would check with anything except JJ here. Maybe he was going for the C/R with AA, KK, QQ, 99, AQ, or KQ. Maybe he has just given up with AK, AJ, KJ.

to pokerstove we go...

TT vs range has 60% equity (WTF, though it would be lower), so call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never played with him, but I GUARANTEE that his 3-betting range is wider than that...

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess that makes calling an even better option then.

[/ QUOTE ]
stop thinking so much based on stats and pf.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

Bad riv for him to bluff because he would assume that since you're calling the flop, that you have a pair IMO (or you woulda bet the turn probably if it was a float/semibluff). Therefore, he prob puts y on something like 77, 88, or TT, and is stickin in a vbet here. I might 4bet preflop with this hand, since he could certainly be on a squeeze.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

ike wouldn't bluff here. Fold.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

i didn't read this thread, but this is a snap [censored] call.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

you guys are mor-ans the fact he wouldn't bluff here doesn't amke this a fold, WTF

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

i think ikes is going to bluff a lot here if you don't have a lot of history since you're probably going to outthink yourself and fold most of the hands you should call with.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

98 is really close here.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
you guys are mor-ans the fact he wouldn't bluff here doesn't amke this a fold, WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

plz to be explaining?

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you guys are mor-ans the fact he wouldn't bluff here doesn't amke this a fold, WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

plz to be explaining?

[/ QUOTE ]

he's either got exactly JJ or he's value betting worse, and a lot of the time he's going to be value betting worse, WAY more than he's going to have better

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

call, make a note

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think ikes is going to bluff a lot here if you don't have a lot of history since you're probably going to outthink yourself and fold most of the hands you should call with.

[/ QUOTE ]
I strongly disagree, ikes is a good aggro player but does think what he will fold out be4 he bluffs. My hand looks ALOT like what i have, and he doesnt have a good enough read to fold out that range.. I mean most 2/4 players look you up here with hands like i have, so its not really a great spot to bluff, it would if river was A or K or something imo. If he wants to bluff he would bet the the turn?

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you guys are mor-ans the fact he wouldn't bluff here doesn't amke this a fold, WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

plz to be explaining?

[/ QUOTE ]

he's either got exactly JJ or he's value betting worse, and a lot of the time he's going to be value betting worse, WAY more than he's going to have better

[/ QUOTE ]

what hand do i have where i valuebet worse than 1010?

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

It clearly looks like he is value betting. Whether or not he is could be debated though.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

imo your toast

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

As usual, I can almost not even imagine folding. I'd probably be eaten alive by you guys [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I am curious though, what do you think his range looks like?

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

pair of jacks up

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you guys are mor-ans the fact he wouldn't bluff here doesn't amke this a fold, WTF

[/ QUOTE ]

plz to be explaining?

[/ QUOTE ]

he's either got exactly JJ or he's value betting worse, and a lot of the time he's going to be value betting worse, WAY more than he's going to have better

[/ QUOTE ]

what hand do i have where i valuebet worse than 1010?

[/ QUOTE ]At least as low as 97 apparently

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

[ QUOTE ]
As usual, I can almost not even imagine folding. I'd probably be eaten alive by you guys [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I am curious though, what do you think his range looks like?

[/ QUOTE ]


[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Fabian




to clarify, i say this completely irrespective of the hand -- i just love your playing style , such that it allows you to basically lose money at showdowns and never fold and show a profit

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

If he's gunna bluff he prob bets the turn, very ez fold imo.

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

zomg mass nits O_O

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

whiffing a c/r could make some sense especially if he thinks you might float the flop and try to take it away on the turn. i think your river decision is really close. it might help to take a look at his river aggression if you have a decent sample on him?

Re: 2/4 hand vs ikestoys
 

also i seriously doubt hes ever valuebetting worse...that would be some serious merging imo