267 on the button...
 

in SSII Negreanu puts 267 in the category of 2 card draws that should be played in 'most situations' and folded only in the face of 'too much action, especially when the raises come from tight players'. Assume you are dealt it on the button in a decent 30/60+ lineup, how do you generally proceed in various situations assuming the pot has already been opened?

Re: 267 on the button...
 

3 bet all but the tightest guys (hard to find any that qualify 30/60+) or a solid guy UTG.

Liked your video btw.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 267 on the button...
 

yeah its a clear 3bet in 90% of the situation.

I am not sure why negreanu doesnt put it in the same category as 237 247 257. Obviously you cant make a wheel but your odds of making a 7 are the same.

Occasionally you will make a 7 and loss but I believe its definately compensate by the time where you make a rough 7 and beat an 8.

The only reason I see is if you make an 87. An 874 or 875 is definitelly more valuably than a 876. But even with it I dont see any reason to play a 267 differently than 237/247/257 or even 234

Re: 267 on the button...
 

Question to those who 3 bet on the button here 100% of the time. How do you play 238-258. Muck it, 3 bet it? Because if you're always 3 betting 237 and always calling 238, doesn't that become really exploitable?

This is something I've gone back and forth on as far as how to play these hands, as it seems many good players are calling here on the button alot with 2x7 to disguise when they call with 2 card 8 draws, and many good players 3 bet bet everything. Lets ignore player tendencies since obviously that's a huge factor and say the opponnent has average opening ranges, not a huge nit but not a moron either.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't getting head-up in position, not letting the big blind draw three, a reasonable benefit?

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

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Isn't getting head-up in position, not letting the big blind draw three, a reasonable benefit?

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In a perfect world sure, but the blinds will be playing any reasonable 2 card draw regardless of if you call or three bet.. and the few times you fold the BB who was going to play for 2 bets and draw 3, you gotta compensate for bloating the pot with a hand that often becomes trouble (Esp when you catch 8x on first or second draw)

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

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Agreed. Generally I'm pretty happy to play 2x7 multiway with position.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

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Agreed. Generally I'm pretty happy to play 2x7 multiway with position.

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Agreed, plus like I said, what are you doing with 2x8 on the button. Too good to fold,but how to do you play it well if you're always 3 betting 2x7?

Re: 267 on the button...
 

In theory it almost makes more sense to 3 bet your weaker 3 card hands like 238 trying to force HU action and just call with 234 type hands.. I've always felt this way but never practiced it because theres enough added variance the way i play.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

The true frustrating part about duece is that you can employ any change of strategy and really not know how it changes your EV for a really long time due to the variance of the game. You could win 500 bets easily in a short period of time doing something that's -EV.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

[ QUOTE ]
The true frustrating part about poker is that you can employ any change of strategy and really not know how it changes your EV for a really long time due to the variance of the game. You could win 500 bets easily in a short period of time doing something that's -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitely not something that only happens in triple draw.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The true frustrating part about poker is that you can employ any change of strategy and really not know how it changes your EV for a really long time due to the variance of the game. You could win 500 bets easily in a short period of time doing something that's -EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitely not something that only happens in triple draw.

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of course not, but I think it's alot easier to not recongize a leak in duece than it is other games.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Question to those who 3 bet on the button here 100% of the time. How do you play 238-258. Muck it, 3 bet it? <font color="red">Because if you're always 3 betting 237 and always calling 238, doesn't that become really exploitable? </font>


[/ QUOTE ]
i have more of a hit-n-run philosophy for 2-7... if you're at a table long enough to be exploited by this, you may have been at that particular table too long

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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In theory it almost makes more sense to 3 bet your weaker 3 card hands like 238 trying to force HU action and just call with 234 type hands.. I've always felt this way but never practiced it because theres enough added variance the way i play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you've spoiled the strategy, I guess I don't mind saying that I do this. (Not always, obv.)

Re: 267 on the button...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Question to those who 3 bet on the button here 100% of the time. How do you play 238-258. Muck it, 3 bet it? <font color="red">Because if you're always 3 betting 237 and always calling 238, doesn't that become really exploitable? </font>


[/ QUOTE ]

kinda hard for the 30/60'ers since you play the same people day in and day out.
i have more of a hit-n-run philosophy for 2-7... if you're at a table long enough to be exploited by this, you may have been at that particular table too long

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

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I am 100% in your camp now. I used to be in the 3-bet of fold camp, I now see that is not optimal - calling is. The buttom is so valuable that I dont mind letting in other players, especially since in 2-7 nobody folds pre-1st draw in they have a playable hand.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% in your camp now. I used to be in the 3-bet of fold camp, I now see that is not optimal - calling is. The buttom is so valuable that I dont mind letting in other players, especially since in 2-7 nobody folds pre-1st draw in they have a playable hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm the same. SSII recommends 3-betting to try for HU action with position, but I disagree. The only place I like to cold call from is the button, and I'll do it with any 2 card 7 draw with a deuce or any 2 card draw to a #5 with a 2 or 3. I don't mind playing the multi way pot with position.

Would like to know what people's Stars screen names are. Mine is obvious.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

+1 TT.
my reason is that i usually play .50/1.00, and i'd probably
STILL end up seeing 1st draw multiway, 2 bets or me bumping to 3 bets. 2567x or better, another story.

Ezgo, mine'll be obvious too--same as handle here.

reason u guys ain't seen me much lately:
about 3-4 weeks ago i won a 500 fpp satellite to the sunday million...did the wise thing and cashed to tourney$.
been doing exclusively mtt's and sng's ever since... but it's built up my roll nicely.

Re: 267 on the button...
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I just about always call here, no huge benefits to 3 betting but thats not terrible either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am 100% in your camp now. I used to be in the 3-bet of fold camp, I now see that is not optimal - calling is. The buttom is so valuable that I dont mind letting in other players, especially since in 2-7 nobody folds pre-1st draw in they have a playable hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, same here I used to play like in draw high : 3bet or fold, but there actually are a lot of spots where a flat call is much better.

Also its not really true that a raise wont make the blinds fold some weak 2 cards draw like 347 or 368 which they would have played for one bet.