nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($213.90)
Hero ($238.20)
UTG ($150.20)
MP ($130.75)
Button ($188)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $3.

Flop: ($8) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $7</font>, Hero calls $7.

Turn: ($22) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $17</font>, Hero calls $17.

River: ($56) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $42</font> Hero raises to $210

villain is a standard tag fish. i have been 3betting him with a moderate frequency. we tangled a few times earlier in the session, but he's seemed to of avoided me lately or bad run of cards whatever. we're kind of deep so this gives me a huge edge as i feel like villain will be playing timid throughout hands with me, which could be why he's avoided pots with me.

as for the hand, plan was to float but then it occurred to me that villain was going to be double barreling a good turn a lot of the time with absolute air. for some reason this made me think that calling was a better decision than raising. reviewing the hand i think i should of raised the turn.

the call on the turn put me in a tricky spot on the river. i know villain is betting the turn with air a lot of the time. i think it's a large possibility that villain has air once this particular river hits. right now i think that the following thought would be going through the villain's head: "the only way i can win the pot is if i bet." or something to that affect.

tldr; basically i think villain has air here and can't call a shove

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

lol which one is the tagfish? He isnt folding an A bvb and you are representing air.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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i feel like villain will be playing timid throughout hands with me

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it occurred to me that villain was going to be double barreling a good turn a lot of the time with absolute air

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River: ($56) 3 (2 players)
SB bets $42

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You say he's going to play timid against you and he bombs three streets so you put him on air?

I think this bluff sucks. You represent absolutely nothing and he looks pretty damn strong (especially since you think he'll be playing so timid against you). I think you get called a huge percentage of the time.

If you somehow got a fold congrats but I think this makes you look like the tagfish.

Disclaimer: I am certainly not saying you ARE a tagfish just that in a vacuum, with the information you provided, this play seems pretty bad.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

If you don't respect his ability to fold then why are you bluffing? This really looks like a Cbet/turned A/vbetting your 77-1010... probably AdXd. You actually think he is folding an ace here?

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

i agree, he is never folding an Ace in this spot and that is what he has the majority of the time. If you want to make a play at this pot, the flop is the place to do it imo as he misses here the majority of the time. You can also consider 3 betting preflop here.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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lol which one is the tagfish? He isnt folding an A bvb and you are representing air.

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i dont think that he has an A here very often. i do think that he double barrels an A on the turn most/all the time

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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lol which one is the tagfish? He isnt folding an A bvb and you are representing air.

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i dont think that he has an A here very often. i do think that he double barrels an A on the turn most/all the time

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While that might be true he has now fired a third barrel so it is time to re assess. ?He seems way to interested in this hand to fold, and if he is playing as timidly as you say he is showing even more intrest than usual. I doubt he puts you on a 2 and I doubt he makes a "good fold" with Ax.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

i dont think he has an A here that often and i don't think he will be able to call a river shove with most of his range

i should of defined "timid" earlier in this thread as folded lots of times to action, not just to my action mind you.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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i dont think he has an A here that often and i don't think he will be able to call a river shove with most of his range

i should of defined "timid" earlier in this thread as folded lots of times to action, not just to my action mind you.

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i think I might know what you are trying to say, but my main point is that the guy fired (3) 3/4pot bets into you. Do you really think a tagfish is doing that with air?

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

you arent repping anything but a flopped fh or quads. you get looked up alot.

Actually you are repping something perfectly... a missed flush draw

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

people at 100 nl don't call with a bare ace here, like, ever

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

I really don't like the way you played this but I do think what carrotsnake said is true

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people at 100 nl don't call with a bare ace here, like, ever

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Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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lol which one is the tagfish? He isnt folding an A bvb and you are representing air.

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hes repping 2x/66 pretty well, not that matters at all this is .5/1 and maybe 1% of regs at .5/1 have a clue a/b hand-reading. also why do you talk about handreading and then talk about this guy having an ace very often at all?

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

timid villain, apparently 'kinda avoiding' hero, leads river, hmm I wonder if he can have an A or better here very often.

If you think villain has air here often at all then calling &gt; raising, plus it give bonus implied tilt odds.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

i don't think this is a matter of how often he has air but how often he folds his non boat/2x hands. I think this is hardly ever air given ur description

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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people at 100 nl don't call with a bare ace here, like, ever

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Yeah I was thinking wtf at a lot of the responses. Thats 2 buyin gone in on the river, hes almost never calling with AK imo.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

Dude, you are all over the place here in your reasoning. What does "tag fish" even mean? Any stats? Any evidence that he won't stack off without the nuts? Any reason at all to think this play will work, in THIS spot, against THIS villain?

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

faced w/ this action what's the worst hand you would call w/ here? also I think this play is definitely +EV vs. most people who will fold AK/A3 maybe A6 here. I just think OP's reasoning is kinda whack in thinking this is air a ton.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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people at 100 nl don't call with a bare ace here, like, ever

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Yeah I was thinking wtf at a lot of the responses. Thats 2 buyin gone in on the river, hes almost never calling with AK imo.

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But would someone who was playing timidly, avoiding OP etc. fire three barrels with AK here in the first place?

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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people at 100 nl don't call with a bare ace here, like, ever

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Yeah I was thinking wtf at a lot of the responses. Thats 2 buyin gone in on the river, hes almost never calling with AK imo.

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not saying what villan would or would not call with, just saying to an observant villan hero is representing air or sometimes a monster

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

Hero represents pocket sevens or quads and I hate it.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

villains never calling this river raise without a sick hand. basically imo it doesn't even matter what i'm repping because he can't call that raise with most of his range

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

we're not representing anything but air or a monster but villains leading 3 streets doesn't seem like Tag behaviour with a marginal hand. If he had an ace wouldn't he check the river to let you bluff your draw? I think we see a fold often here as there aren't many monsters that i put villain on.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

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villains never calling this river raise without a sick hand.

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In other words, Villain is a thinking player.

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basically imo it doesn't even matter what i'm repping


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In other words, Villain isn't a thinking player.

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because he can't call that raise with most of his range

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And what is that range? It might help your case to be specific.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

wow, i haven't seen that much bashing in ssnl in a while.

I don't really like OP's play, but I wouldn't call him a tagfish based off one hand.

Re: nl100 interesting river spot vs tagfish deep
 

FYI I think villain will fold an ace almost always to this river raise. Hero is repping trips, boat, 45dd, air. Villain is repping Ax, boat, trips, air.

I think villain has a big ace here alot.