Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

kind of a weird arbitrary number. also, madden hasn't coached in a while, it may be that some of the most cutting edge concepts have moved beyond him. i mean i am sure he has forgotten more about football than i will ever know, but he has also forgotten a lot because he is old and crazy.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
kind of a weird arbitrary number. also, madden hasn't coached in a while, it may be that some of the most cutting edge concepts have moved beyond him. i mean i am sure he has forgotten more about football than i will ever know, but he has also forgotten a lot because he is old and crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. I shoulda probably phrased it as "excluding top level coaches, Madden knows more about football than pretty much anyone."

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Don't confuse Madden with Morgan.

Madden says dumb things sometimes mainly because he's getting old and senile, but he knows his football.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

I would 250 know more, but not 500.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Has Madden gotten worse this year? I can only watch the Sunday and Monday night games on regular TV so the majority of games I see have Madden commentary. I don't remember him seeming so senile in the past.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

he's paid to be entertaining and a goofball, and to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

he's probably become a parody of himself..I would bet that if you watched a recording of his first few seasons, he would be much better.

but, the guy was an extremely succesfull HC in the NFL for 10 years, and that really doesn't happen by accident. he's also in the HOF as a coach. I don't know how many people know more than him, but it's probably < .1% of the people who criticize him.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

madden knows more football than anybody else in his age bracket

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

madden is still the best commentator by far imo... even when he's dumb and senile he's at least entertaining. most of the announcers for fox, etc are just awful

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
madden is still the best commentator by far imo... even when he's dumb and senile he's at least entertaining. most of the announcers for fox, etc are just awful

[/ QUOTE ]

Jaws is way better. Maybe he isn't a commentator though. He's just a football library.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

jaws is good, but mike and tony drag him down imo... as a broadcast team they drive me nuts

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

In most professions there's a glass ceiling that keeps out a lot of qualified candidates who don't have the right connections. I see no reason why coaching football would be any different, and I don't think a senile John Madden still knows more than any number of guys who haven't ever gotten their foot in the door.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

When he first started broadcasting, Madden was great, probably the best color commentator.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
When he first started broadcasting, Madden was great, probably the best color commentator.

[/ QUOTE ]
True. And even if he is now a caricature of himself he's still a very good one IMO and perhaps still the best. He hasn't seen a Letterman-esque slide from his 80s greatness by any means.

Then again I tend to grade him on a curve because he reminds me of my childhood, making those big third down plays in the backyard while he and Pat Summerall called the action. Who I thought they put out to pasture way too early but nobody seems to agree with me on that so whatever.

Hubie Brown, melted face and all, is still the gold standard for sports analysis.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
he's paid to be entertaining and a goofball, and to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

he's probably become a parody of himself..I would bet that if you watched a recording of his first few seasons, he would be much better.

but, the guy was an extremely succesfull HC in the NFL for 10 years, and that really doesn't happen by accident. he's also in the HOF as a coach. I don't know how many people know more than him, but it's probably < .1% of the people who criticize him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd bet that nobody who criticizes madden knows more than him.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

He's weak on TV but that is to be expected. But if some of the haters sat down with Madden and went to breakdown the film from last night's game they would be stunned. I think that would be an amazing bit to put on MNF. Some random bum calls out Madden, he takes him into the film room and schools the [censored] out of him.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

get over your madden nostalgia. the dude obviously knew football and was an awesome commentator at one time but is now a senile old coot that needs to retire. he is [censored] painful to listen to these days

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Summerall was confusing teams and players far too much - that's just sad when a broadcaster can't get the facts right.

As for Madden, 250 is arbitrary, but 1000 is a rather safe number. I doubt he studies film like Jaworski so he's probably mostly going off a 30 year old script, but it's a good script.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

In his prime days of broadcasting, Madden knew more about football than any broadcaster in the business. That's changed a bit since people like Jaws have come around. But Madden is still the man.

[ QUOTE ]
madden knows more football than anybody else in his age bracket

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would 250 know more, but not 500.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say that unless Madden still puts in a lot of hours following football there are at least 250 players in the NFL who know more about football (as its currently played) than Madden.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

brian baldinger is the worst commentator I have ever heard, and most likely the dumbest human being ever.

He constantly messes up names, players, players with players on the other team, and even coaches. Seriously there is only 1 HC one each side, keep them straight.

Anybody ever notice how often he proclaims a player the best at a certain thing, or position? Seriously there can only be so many players that are the best. In PHI @ MIN he called Adrian Peterson the best RB in the NFL and then called Brian Westbrook the best later in the game.

I tilt so hard when he is covering the Vikes.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. I shoulda probably phrased it as "excluding top level coaches

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'd say that's kind of an important oversight. Also, who qualifies as "top level?" There are obviously a lot of coaches in the world.

So if the statement is, "At most there are 250 non-coaches in the world who know more about football than John Madden," my answer is yes.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
brian baldinger is the worst commentator I have ever heard, and most likely the dumbest human being ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why putting Summerall with him after Madden left for MNF was an even bigger diss than putting him out to pasture altogether. It pained me to hear Pat stuck calling craptastic games - basically Cardinals vs. anyone - with Baldinger when his voice was synonymous with Cowboys-Niners or Giants-Redskins.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

So, wait, is "yes" the "Madden is smart" answer and "no" the "Madden is dumb" answer?

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, wait, is "yes" the "Madden is smart" answer and "no" the "Madden is dumb" answer?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Madden is both smart and great at his job, though I wish he/the network would try to raise the bar more than he does.

he's not trying to be a super smart football analyst, he's trying to be an entertainer and provide some insight. there are tons of other QB's turned announcers who also just take the game down to a simple level so Joe 6 Pack can know what is going on.

though, Jaws is easily my favorite.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

I have always appreciated Madden's insights on the small (but important) things that go one at the D-line and O-line.
For those who have not played football, the D-line and O-line is probably the least appreciated and least understood.

I think Madden helps the average Joe understand the roles of players in these positions, the tricks of the trade, and a whole lot of very subtle things way better (and more often) than any other announcer.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
brian baldinger is the worst commentator I have ever heard, and most likely the dumbest human being ever.

[/ QUOTE ]
Assuming he did the 49ers Cardinals game yesterday QFMFT

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

pretty sure that was Tony Bosselli, who sucked, but he's new at least.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

tuq - I'm with you on the Summerall thing.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

summerall did the cotton bowl last year for Fox. It was probably the worst TV announcing I have ever heard.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
tuq - I'm with you on the Summerall thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

+2

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Sorry to spam this forum with embedded stuff but this 90 second intro to the 1992 NFC Championship is vintage Summerall and vintage 90s NFL:

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/euSG2grAFDA&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/euSG2grAFDA&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

When Madden digressed last night and said that Asante Samuel was using a middle-of-the-field technique on one play, was that completely obvious or was it good commentary? He said it with about 4 minutes to go in the middle of a larger point about not throwing out patterns to Samuel.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Madden is kinda like Bill Walton, in that a lot of their insight kinda gets lost in schtick that now defines them more than their knowledge. The difference is that Walton is intentional and Madden is just more a product of age it would seem. Either way, he's sharper than he seems, and if you ignore the schtick, he's got decent stuff to say.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Madden might have a ton of knowledge, his presentation just blows. If you can't present well, you shouldn't be on the top football game every week.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
Madden might have a ton of knowledge, his presentation just blows. If you can't present well, you shouldn't be on the top football game every week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. IMO he is one of the worst out there. He didn't used to be that way though. It is painful to listen to him sometimes as he states the obvious over and over and too often says things that make you think he is suffering from alzheimers. At least when Harry Carey got that way he was funny.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

It might be because I'm ridiuclously high, but that 92 NFC championship preview was so sick.

Gave me gooesebumps.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

I'm stone sober and it was fantastic.

Did I completely make up Summerall doing a game a year or two ago? I distinctly remember it being between two bad teams and being absolutely enchanting. The man is the greatest play by play guy in NFL history, and not just for "Oh no, there's a man down."


Anyway, Madden's rambling about the Eagles running out the clock this Sunday night was pretty stupid, but I voted yes because the OP sucks at wording questions.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

Madden and Summerall are the main reason that we need cloning ASAP, I want the 2 of them doing every NFL game.

Re: Madden\'s football knowledge
 

[ QUOTE ]
Madden and Summerall are the main reason that we need cloning ASAP, I want the 2 of them doing every NFL game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Madden is still ok at what he does, but Summerall was just horrible at the end. It was a shame too. I'm sure there are some really young guys who were like "WTF" when listening to Summerall, not knowing how great he was. The same thing is happening at Hockey Night in Canada with Bob Cole imo.