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-   -   $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=541565)

psyduck 11-08-2007 06:37 PM

$10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
Background: Danny Wong has been limp/calling a ridiculous range of hands preflop. He has shown down 83s to a button raise (he flats in big blind) and is literally limping into like 30% of pots preflop and calling with like 90% of his limping range when there's a raise.

Blinds 100/200 effective stacks like 10k, EP old guy looseish/passive limps and I make it 800 with 88 in MP. CO who has been calling a lot of my raises flats, Danny Wong flats in SB, old guy flats from UTG or whatever.

Flop T 6 4 rainbow. Check check, I bet out 1450, CO folds, Danny Wong eyes my stack, then looks at UTG who looks like he's about to fold, and then calls after about a minute or whatever. UTG folds.

Turn J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] putting a flush draw out. He pauses and checks, I check behind after about 45 seconds.

River pairs the 4 and is offsuit. He leads 1500.


Thoughts? Check-fold flop? What about river? Danny Wong is ridiculously hard to play against postflop but he leaks way way way way too much preflop. Thoughts on double barrelling, and thoughts on bluffing the river once he block-bets like 1/4 pot or whatever?

zizazziza 11-08-2007 07:10 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
I think i double barrel (shove?) if you think that he floats this often with crap hands. As played, I think you need to call his river bet.

Todd Terry 11-08-2007 08:07 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
C-bet is fine, the board is pretty damn good for 88, I'd usually take a stab at it. Against players who like to hang around with crap, frequent double barreling is a good idea IMO.

Here, your hand could easily be good on the turn and isn't getting called by worse (or is it?, I don't know if your OP covers this), so checking is obviously OK.

As played, you have to call the river, bets this small aren't even worth thinking about most of the time. Checking behind the turn and then raising the river is a tough sell, unless you've been seen checking behind monsters in position on the turn prior to this hand. Not to mention you have no clue what he has, so you could be just donating a lot of chips by raising.

psyduck 11-08-2007 08:18 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
If you call with 88, do you also call with AK (ace-high)? From Danny Wong's perspective, is a 1/3 river bet bluff ever profitable after I've shown considerable flop strength by c-betting into 3 people?

Just things I was thinking about during the hand...


edit: I also didn't expect Danny to peel with 6x or 4x on the flop since again I was c-betting into multiple people and he is OOP. I also can't see him having total air because that would be an OOP float on a dry board etc etc which seems kinda insane!

Todd Terry 11-08-2007 08:26 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
The flop is really garbage, I see people c-bet with AK all the time on flops like that, some live players c-bet with AK/AQ regardless of board texture or number of players, I don't know how many hands you'd played against him for him to be able to know with certainty that you had better than AK/AQ when you c-bet the flop. Plus, honestly I'd be willing to burn the chips to see what he had even if I thought the chance of my hand being good was remote, but that's me.

Bond18 11-08-2007 09:27 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
Psyduck, given the read/information "he's not calling flop with 6x/4x....can't see him having total air"

That doesn't leave much we beat outside 77 or like 75. 75 bets bigger cause it wants you out. So i think only 77 plays like this, and it still might check down to you and let you bluff. So fold.

shaniac 11-08-2007 11:36 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
i agree with todd...almost trivial call. Probably a call with AK, too.

Bond18 11-08-2007 11:59 PM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
I don't get it, given the information psyduck provided, how's this trivial?

shaniac 11-09-2007 12:27 AM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get it, given the information psyduck provided, how's this trivial?

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess not trivial, but semi automatic...it's a pretty small bet and you'll catch him with air often enough to make it profitable. If not, like Todd said, it's worth it for the information.

g-p 11-09-2007 02:06 AM

Re: $10k Foxwoods - Small underpair multiway hand vs Danny Wong
 
BET TURN, cmon


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