am i a donkey?
 

$200 buyin

only relevant history is that I was caught double barreling a couple hands before.

150bb deep-- 1st round. 6 max.

UTG raises 3.5x the bb. MP calls. I call out of SB with 55 after contemplating 3-betting. The BB calls.

FLOP (14bb) T 5 6 r

I check, BB checks, UTG checks and MP bets 10bb...I call.

Re: am i a donkey?
 

Would UTG ever check a big pair on the flop there? If not i CR the flop most of the time. If so then i can't wait for him to make this hand so sweet he'll think i'm colluding with MP.

Re: am i a donkey?
 

*edit: I thought about deleting this post because Bond is right, i wasn't thinking about the greatness of BB/UTG betting and trapping MP in between. My post is more catered to a full ring tourney where the first in was in mid/late position...



if you check and donk out on the turn it will raise warning flags, if you check-raise the flop it will raise warning flags, if you check the flop the turn could check through and you lose value, if you check-call the flop and turn and donk the river it can raise warning flags, if you check-call the flop and turn and check the river you can lose value...

of course, if you lead out into 4 players it will raise warning flags too but the odds are that someone will have an overpair tha they want to get some money in with. when i flop a monster like this I am looking to stack an overpair or 78s... not extract an extra bet from 99 or AK

Re: am i a donkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would UTG ever check a big pair on the flop there? If not i CR the flop most of the time. If so then i can't wait for him to make this hand so sweet he'll think i'm colluding with MP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how UTG would play an overpair. The player who called my double barrell wasn't in the hand.

Re: am i a donkey?
 

Incidently, this is an absolutely awful situation to 3-bet preflop. I don't know why you were contemplating it. Flat calling is much better.

Re: am i a donkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incidently, this is an absolutely awful situation to 3-bet preflop. I don't know why you were contemplating it. Flat calling is much better.

[/ QUOTE ]

well it's 6max so peoples utg ranges should be looser and given the stack sizes i think i can put alot of pressure on villains post flop even if i don't hit. plus i'm a cash donkey.

i figure it really comes down to UTGs opening range. even though it's six max, i decided to assume that it was relatively tight until i found out otherwise. but if it was relatively wide than i prefer 3-betting.

Re: am i a donkey?
 

What's the plan for the turn?

Re: am i a donkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's the plan for the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I was hoping that UTG would raise to around 40bb, MP would call, and I'd push to 150bb...

And if that didn't happen, the plan for the turn was to donk the turn on any card except possibly an 8 or 3. I figure this gives the Villain an opportunity to bluff raise me, given my weird line and doesn't get the turn checked behind. thoughts?

Re: am i a donkey?
 

Check-calling OOP with the PFR to act behind looks pretty strong and narrows your range a ton on a rainbow flop to the extent that a ton of turn cards are going to make getting paid really hard. Coming out firing into a three-way turn is also going to look pretty strong. It's an interesting spot, because pretty much everything you so on this flop, four-way, looks pretty strong. In these situations, I like betting out, because that keeps my range widest, but I think when we check, PFR checks and MP bets, a check-raise doesn't look any stronger than a check-call but has the advantage of getting more chips into the middle more of the time. That said, getting your stack in good is going to be really hard the way the hand plays out. PFR is supposed to bet this flop if he's going to call bets and check calls, after all.

Re: am i a donkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check-calling OOP with the PFR to act behind looks pretty strong and narrows your range a ton on a rainbow flop to the extent that a ton of turn cards are going to make getting paid really hard. Coming out firing into a three-way turn is also going to look pretty strong. It's an interesting spot, because pretty much everything you so on this flop, four-way, looks pretty strong. In these situations, I like betting out, because that keeps my range widest, but I think when we check, PFR checks and MP bets, a check-raise doesn't look any stronger than a check-call but has the advantage of getting more chips into the middle more of the time. That said, getting your stack in good is going to be really hard the way the hand plays out. PFR is supposed to bet this flop if he's going to call bets and check calls, after all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about leading out but there's no way that UTG is going to raise as a bluff with a Villain behind. Leading might keep our range wide, but I think given that their are 4 people to the flop that it narrows it some.

I know that calling looks strong on this pretty dry flop, but I just didn't think Villain was going to come along with a weaker hand. I'm putting Villain on a hand like TJ or T9, maybe TA. or 78. But he's drawing very thin with most of his range.